Dilution water..?

[TheRedDarren]

Hello,
I've just had a play around with the water calculator on here as I'm trying to figure out why my malty pale ales are harsh.
I think its down to the sulphite/chloride ratio. It seems I have to dilute my tap water to lower the HC03 level.
Herer is my water profile;
Ca+2 52, Mg+2 13, So4-2 23.1, Na+ 15.2, Cl- 16.3, Hc03- 106.5.
What can I use to do this? To make water suitable for pale ales I'll need about 15/17l to dilute by 50% (my total water is usually 30/35l for a 23l batch), according to my calculations - which are more than likely well off!

 

[TartanSpecial]

You should use CRS (brupaks acid solution) to cut back the bicarbonate. I’ve plugged your figures into the forum water calculator..it suggests 0.34ml per litre of liquor (example I put it was for 35ltr total liquor, and selected pale ale). That will allow the mash ph to be slightly lower and may help. Calculator also says to add Gypsum (ie adding more calcium and sulphate), salt and epsom salts. It says add to boiler but personally I’d add them to the grain before the mash. Other things that I’ve read may cause harshness is too high water temp for the sparge stripping out tannins.

CRS: 11.8 millilitres Carbonate Reducing Solution - add this to the total water volume!

Gypsum added to mash: 0 grams Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate) (Ca SO4 2H2O)
Chalk added to mash: 0 grams Chalk (Calcium Carbonate) (Ca CO3)

Gypsum added to boiler: 11.73 grams Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate) (Ca SO4 2H2O)
Table Salt added to boiler: 0.47 grams Table Salt (Na Cl)
Epsom Salts added to boiler: 2.48 grams Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate) (Mg SO4 7H2O)
Calcium Chloride added to boiler: 0 grams Calcium Chloride (Dihydrate) (Ca Cl2 2H2O

 

[TartanSpecial]

forgot to mention I was using the old forum water calculator.

 

[TartanSpecial]

Have just looked at the new water calculator per your link and I don't like it...it's not set up to allow cutting back carbonates with CRS...which is the standard methodology in the UK. Check out the old water calculator. Dilution with distilled water is a very US thing.
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/water.php#results

 

[TartanSpecial]

Also put your profile through the graham wheelers calculator
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water.html
and for a burton ale ale I get the following....v similar to the old forum one. ie stip back C03 with CRS, then add Ca and SO4 to optimal levels. Depending what pale ale type you choose give alter the figure a bit...choosing burton ups the Epsom slts.
Salt Additions Required Volume to be Treated: 35 Litres
CRS Required: 0.34 ml/l Total CRS: 11.9 ml
Calcium Sulphate (as gypsum): 335.08 mg/l Total Calcium Sulphate: 11.73 grams
Calcium Chloride (dihydrate): 0 mg/l Total Calcium Chloride:0 grams
Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom salts): 71 mg/l Total Magnesium Sulphate:2.49 grams
Sodium Chloride (common salt): 13.8 mg/l Total Sodium Chloride:0.48 grams
Calcium Carbonate (as chalk): 0 mg/l Total Calcium Carbonate:0 grams
Sodium Carbonate (soda crystals): 0 mg/l Total Sodium Carbonate: 0 grams
Sodium Sulphate (Glauber's salt): 37.08 mg/l Total Sodium Sulphate: 1.3 grams
Magnesium Carbonate (anhydrous): 0mg/l Total Magnesium Carbonate:0 gram

 

[TheRedDarren]

Thats great, thanks MrSpecial.
Just ordered some Brupaks CRS so will get on this for my next brew at the weekend.

 

[MyQul]

Where did you get your water profile from btw? If you got it from your water supplier's web site it may be wrong.

Thames water tell my by bicarbonate level for my area is 230ppm but when I measure it myself it's 188ppm (although the my online water report is from 2014)

 

[TartanSpecial]

worth getting a salifert alkalinity testing kit....only £5 and easy to use... Alternatively send me a 10ml sample and I'll test it for you.

 

[TheRedDarren]

Where did you get your water profile from btw? If you got it from your water supplier's web site it may be wrong.

Thames water tell my by bicarbonate level for my area is 230ppm but when I measure it myself it's 188ppm (although the my online water report is from 2014)

It was from the website. JBK's water calculator advised me to check it as it is 'unusually high'.

 

[TheRedDarren]

worth getting a salifert alkalinity testing kit....only £5 and easy to use... Alternatively send me a 10ml sample and I'll test it for you.

Ah mate, thanks for the offer.
But I may send a sample off to (was it?) Murphys? To get it analysed in detail. Do they also send back instructions on how to adjust for different styles?

 

[MyQul]

Ah mate, thanks for the offer.
But I may send a sample off to (was it?) Murphys? To get it analysed in detail. Do they also send back instructions on how to adjust for different styles?

If you PM me your email address I'll send you a copy of the report I've got so you can have a look at how it's all set out

 

[TartanSpecial]

Ah mate, thanks for the offer.
But I may send a sample off to (was it?) Murphys? To get it analysed in detail. Do they also send back instructions on how to adjust for different styles?

Yes...they send back the analysis with recommended treatment options for pale ales/bitter, stouts/porter&milds, and lagers/pilsners.
Note they they call CRS 'AMS' and they call DLS (brupaks DLS) DWB which confused me at the time but their lab manager said they were the same.

I got the salifert kit just so I could check if the alkalinity varied through the year since the sample sent to Murphy's will be one point in time...

 

[TheRedDarren]

If you PM me your email address I'll send you a copy of the report I've got so you can have a look at how it's all set out

Cool, thanks dude.