Covid - Plan B & Omicron

[Leon103]

Any antivaxxer who gets ill from covid should be treated, but they should have to pay out of pocket for the treatment.

How does that work

 

[MrRook]

How does that work

It wouldn't in the U K, but since there's no universal healthcare in the U S if you don't have health insurance you pay out of pocket. Some insurance providers are charging way higher monthly premiums to non vaccinated people. The next step is not covering treatment.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Travellers heading to the UK will now have to have a Covid test before their departure in effort to limit spread of the virus, government has announced.
Health Secretary Sajid Javid said the tightened requirements would come into force from 04:00 on Tuesday.
Travellers will be required to submit evidence of a negative lateral flow or PCR test to enter.
Currently people only need to self-isolate until they test negative within two days of arriving.
Nigeria will also be added from Monday to the red list of countries from where people arriving must quarantine in a hotel for 10 days, Mr Javid also confirmed.
The moves come after pressure on the government to tighten the policy had been growing over the course of the week.
Last week the government's scientific advisory body Sage said pre-departure tests for those arriving in the UK would be valuable, in the leaked minutes of a meeting seen by the BBC.
The Labour Party previously criticised the government's current testing policy and called for the reintroduction of pre-departure tests.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59534685

 

[DavidDetroit]

Well last year it was 1.5 million

Narrow-mindedly, I was only checking the US deaths for TB which are around 500, more or less, per year.
Someone discounting the current pandemic was just making a silly statement. It was actually Whataboutism.
That antibiotic problem is scary. We've been overusing sanitizer here for who knows how long, instead of just soap. So we're causing more resistant organisms.

.

 

[johnny108]

Any antivaxxer who gets ill from covid should be treated, but they should have to pay out of pocket for the treatment.

Is that going to apply to smokers with lung cancer?

 

[dad_of_jon]

Is that going to apply to smokers with lung cancer?

Or the very obese, etc.

I think there is an issue relating to the right Not to be vaccinated Vs the right of people to not be hurt by those who aren't. Also there are those who are unable due to medical reasons that can't take the vaccine. So denying access to certain Venues unless you're jabbed ,recovered or negative test seems reasonable in the circumstances. Even this could be argued in the case of pubs/cinemas etc.. as these are deemed to be non essentials should there be protection for those attending or is it at your own risk. Either way you are curtailing the freedom of one group over another? Freedom Vs safety

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Is that going to apply to smokers with lung cancer?

There have been calls over the years for smokers and obese people to be made to pay for treatment but as has been said we all pay our taxes and the NHS is free to all and rightly so,

 

[MrRook]

Is that going to apply to smokers with lung cancer?

If lung cancer (or obesity) was as contagious as covid. Otherwise it's not really a fair comparison.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

You cannot make expeptions the NHS is free you cannot charge people because you believe people with one health issue are less deserving than another.

 

[DavidDetroit]

I was under the impression that @MrRook was talking about the US health system, not the UK's?
Ours is no picnic.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I was under the impression that @MrRook was talking about the US health system, not the UK's?
Ours is no picnic.

He answered the point made by Hop it below who was discussing the NHS.

Hop it said -
The British way has in recent times tended strongly towards achieving a consensus by persuasion rather than by force. Nobody likes being told what to do, even if/when they are either misguided or wrong. I sincerely hope that the dissenters in this country can be persuaded to get themselves and their families vaccinated at the earliest opportunity.

Denying these people treatment in our society is inhumane (even if they have been stupid).

Mr Rock said -
Any antivaxxer who gets ill from covid should be treated, but they should have to pay out of pocket for the treatment.

 

[DavidDetroit]

No

I could be wrong but he said:

"My bad, I didn't take into account that difference." after having the difference pointed out.


Then this in response to a hypothetical:

"It wouldn't in the U K, but since there's no universal healthcare in the U S if you don't have health insurance you pay out of pocket. Some insurance providers are charging way higher monthly premiums to non vaccinated people. The next step is not covering treatment."

Sounds like he's talking about US.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I could be wrong but he said:
"My bad, I didn't take into account that difference." after having the difference pointed out.

I didn't look that far down so it looks like he was not talking about the NHS.

As i said earlier in the thread in the UK people have said smokers and obese people should have to pay for treatment as its self induced my post below still stands

You cannot make exceptions the NHS is free you cannot charge people because you believe people with one health issue are less deserving than another.

 

[DavidDetroit]

I didn't look that far down so it looks like he was not talking about the NHS.

As i said earlier in the thread in the UK people have said smokers and obese people should have to pay for treatment as its self induced my post below still stands

Got it.
Adding variables like "smokers" or "obesity" to a system is complicated.
On one hand, "Clean Living Joe" puts in the same amount of money in the pot as "Walking Disaster Dave" (Obese, smokes, gambles, philanderer, doesn't exercise). Joe uses virtually no resources but I suppose gets peace of mind knowing it's there. Dave uses tons of resources. This scenario lacks fairness.
On the other, can we just let WDD (walking disaster Dave) die in the gutter because he makes poor choices? I wouldn't. Maybe I'd be tempted from time to time but, ultimately, I wouldn't.
I'm for universal healthcare and I would take the stance of "no system is perfect" much like many other areas.
Ours isn't so good; greed supersedes logic and reason.

 

[Bernie]

Any antivaxxer who gets ill from covid should be treated, but they should have to pay out of pocket for the treatment.

Let's take that a little further and refuse treatment to everyone who causes themselves harm, despite the fact that they have paid into the system.

 

[Flat Foot]

I have two hobbies, both of which I've been told if I hurt myself doing it I should pay as I would be a cost to the NHS

1) cycling

....yet many cyclists are generally healthy and fitter than others in the population, so likely cost less over the years. Not to mention mental health benefits when I just need to get my head straight

(And I hope no-one checks how much a car accident costs the emergency services)

2) motorcycling

...yet I could argue I earn more than the average wage, not a boast but does that then give me more right to do some "risky" activities as I pay more than the average citizen?

Two trite examples but the main point from me on this one is it's a slippery slope if you start saying some who have made certain choices don't get treated in an emergency

 

[trummy]

Flat Foot your post applies to me (apart from me not earning much) I did ski as well pre Covid but we have to live - the Granny state is bad enough as it is - but when there is a pandemic, where you are potentially putting a lot more people at risk , and potentially denying a hospital bed to someone in dire need, is that not a different scenario. It is a dilemma I guess without an easy answer.

 

[dad_of_jon]

Certainly smokers pay excise duty and a study my ex-chief executive came across suggested because of the quick 'short' death (from lung cancer) that by smoking they were giving up their lives to help fund the nhs. Sugar tax is 'supposed' to contribute towards reducing obesity and of course minimum alcohol pricing in scotland and wales ( , so it could be argued that for many bad 'lifestyle' choices there is an additional contribution being paid.

If they introduce a 'fat' tax for foods with a high fat content that would be most bases covered?

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

Certainly smokers pay excise duty and a study my ex-chief executive came across suggested because of the quick 'short' death (from lung cancer) that by smoking they were giving up their lives to help fund the nhs. Sugar tax is 'supposed' to contribute towards reducing obesity and of course minimum alcohol pricing in scotland and wales ( , so it could be argued that for many bad 'lifestyle' choices there is an additional contribution being paid.

If they introduce a 'fat' tax for foods with a high fat content that would be most bases covered?

And likewise, generally, older folk like me tend to have paid more into the NHS purely because we have been contributing for longer.

 

[DavidDetroit]

In a perfect world, all people would take reasonable care of themselves.

yet I could argue I earn more than the average wage, not a boast but does that then give me more right to do some "risky" activities as I pay more than the average citizen?

Peripherally, if a rider checks all the boxes (training, safety, more training, licensed, bike care, common sense), riding is safe.
The people who skew the graph to make riding seem dangerous are the reckless speeders, the unlicensed, etc.
I'm not saying there aren't risks but there are with driving a car.
Did you notice a big increase in your car driving ability after learning to ride a motorcycle? Now I drive the car like I'm on my bike.