Clean In Place (CIP) - Yes Please!

[hoppyscotty]

The point I'm making ... It's horses for courses! Pi$$ about with the wrong cleaner and chances are it won't work! You need a suitable cleaner for the job; there is no such thing as a "universal" cleaner.

Yes, its horses for courses and people have different needs and requirements and the good thing about forums like this is you get to see there are many ways to achieve the same objective each with their own pro's and cons and people can pick and choose what works best for them.

But that stuff in your counterflow cooler looks like it needs something with a bit of punch. I've just started using a plate chiller so guess this is something I need to look out for. I assume you've been flushing your counterflow chiller out after each use with a cleaner rlalther than letting it sit with wort in it for any length of time? I flush and counter flush my chiller for a good hour each way immediately after use with hot cleaner then with water in a hope to prevent any built up of crud, but maybe this wont be sufficient in the long term.

 

[MashBag]

With my elements. 3kw I take them out of the kettles when their bad. Put them in an old glass fancy spaghetti jar , then fill to just above the element with white vinegar. No idea how it works but I think it's the fancy part of the jar that does all the work and gets off the crud. I've tried it in non fancy jars but it dosnt do any thing.

For me that points to limescale if vinegar shifts it.

 

[MashBag]

I still use 2% Caustic @ 80*C for 15mins. Used with my Novax 20b (vitex) Pompe and a variety of spray balls all my cleaning is straightforward. Been using this for a number of years and even dismantled it just to check. But it does everything I need. It's now castor mounted on a trolley and has a bouncer filter upstream all on triclamp and a 16Amp waterproof plug.
Job done!

I might try that. I have a big bucket of caustic

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I thought this might be of interest. I’ve just finished a batch of brews and now deep cleaning some of the more troublesome kit, in particular my plate chiller. This is a sealed unit so there’s no way to get inside and it utilises very thin passageways for the wort (and cooling water) to navigate. Clearly this is a good candidate for a build up of protein clumps and hop debris.

I’ve already flushed this through from both directions with hot water for several minutes.

I’ve already circulated and soaked everything in a hot strong oxy solution.

Now I’m flushing through some sodium hydroxide (caustic soda / lye)…

 

[hoppyscotty]

Need to get me some caustic for my plate chiller then.

 

[MashBag]

Yup. Caustic finds and removes filth you never thought you had.

 

[Sadfield]

Now I'm flushing through some sodium hydroxide (caustic soda / lye)…

View attachment 88491

Brilliant, thanks.

Exactly what I saw in post #5. There's nothing as efficient as caustic.

Also, one of the reasons why I don't have a plate chiller.

 

[MashBag]

Also, one of the reasons why I don't have a plate chiller.

I gave up on them too.

 

[hoppyscotty]

well depends what's going through your plate chiller. If you filter out all the solid matter so have only liquid wort and flush that wort through immediately after use then there should be no problems. If you have solid matter gathering or wort left to dry leaving the residue from the wort to build then you will have problems. I always flush out my plate chiller after use several times so shouldn't be building up crud....but when I get some caustic through I'll see if that theory is correct. Plate chillers are used widely in assorts of industries where cross contamination is forbidden so cleaning protocols they use should be more than good enough.

 

[MashBag]

Video it for us

 

[hoppyscotty]

I've got some caustic soda granolas to flush out my plate chiller to see if my previous flushing and cleaning regime is effective or not. The instructions just say to dilute with water and use cold, is this what others do or do you use it hot for better cleaning performance?

Also I was planning on running through the chiller, closing off the valve and leaving to soak for 20 mins then flushing through with the rest of the mix (about 20 litres) rather than recirculating. My thinking that giving it a good soak gives the caustic time to work on anything that might be in there then flush out with the rest of the mix. The capacity of my chiller is about 1.5 litres so a soak and flush seems to be a sensible thing to do rather than recirculate?? Does this sound like a good approach?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I've got some caustic soda granolas

That should clean you out!

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I've got some caustic soda granolas to flush out my plate chiller to see if my previous flushing and cleaning regime is effective or not. The instructions just say to dilute with water and use cold, is this what others do or do you use it hot for better cleaning performance?

Also I was planning on running through the chiller, closing off the valve and leaving to soak for 20 mins then flushing through with the rest of the mix (about 20 litres) rather than recirculating. My thinking that giving it a good soak gives the caustic time to work on anything that might be in there then flush out with the rest of the mix. The capacity of my chiller is about 1.5 litres so a soak and flush seems to be a sensible thing to do rather than recirculate?? Does this sound like a good approach?

You can use warm/hot water but be aware that sodium hydroxide is highly exothermic and will generate a lot of heat when added to the water. It brought my hand hot water almost to the boil.

Yes, a soak and a flush, repeat until the flush becomes pretty clear. I finished with a continuous recirc for a few minutes to pick up anything left behind. The water did discolour a little.

Then I flushed through with acid and finally a few flushes with clean water.

 

[peebee]

I've got some caustic soda granolas <sic> to flush out my plate chiller ...

After your words (and piccies) of warning at the start of this thread, I see you are caving-in to the temptation of using insidiously lethal lye. Hot too!

I still haven't attempted to remove the heavy accumulation of beerstone in my heat exchanger yet. But I'm using the two-prong approach to that particular problem: A hot acidic wash followed immediately by a hot alkaline wash. And I won't be using lye!


Oddly, beerstone is supposedly encouraged to form by alkaline treatments (used alone). I don't understand those explanations through ... seems contradictory to me.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Don't worry peebee, I'm covered......

This is only a test at this point. I'm loving my plate chiller and am aware of the possibility of accumulation of gunk. I've taken reasonably extreme steps to ensure no solid stuff gets into the chiller in the first place i.e. hop matter and any grains or grain flour that might have got through, so should be getting just wort with very very fine particulate matter that is not going to cause any clogging.

In his case my thinking is that by flushing through immediately after use I'm avoiding any wort drying on the plates and leaving gunk on the plates that will build up over time and use. So if my thinking is correct then I'm hoping/expecting the chiller to run clear....if not then I would probably incorporate a caustic wash/flush just for the chiller. Trust me if you've seen the environment I'm brewing in then having dangerous chemicals being used widely then it's an accident waiting to happen. I can probably manage it if I just use caustic for the chiller and can probably get away with a caustic flush every 5 or so uses. Lets see how dirty the water is that comes out of the chiller later!

 

[MashBag]

If you have caustic granules I would dissolve some in a jug of warm water. Quite strong and use this as a flush not a soak.

TFR and neat caustic are not the same.

DO NOT USE THIS ON ANYTHING ALUMINIUM

 

[hoppyscotty]

OK I have video's the process but I made up a very strong solution of the caustic soda....according to the instructions there were two dilution levels - strong cleaning and 'nuke them from orbit' level. I opted for a mid point between the two as that was all the caustic Soda I had. Ran through 10 litres initially, then stopped and soaked for 20 mins then ran the remaining 10 litres through at a very slow rate as that was all my brewzilla pump could muster.

the good news for me is that the solution ran clear throughout the process, so my cleaning regime seems to be effective...however I've only used the plate chiller about 6 times over the past year, so not exactly had alot of use so maybe that is to be expected. I think I'll do this every 5 or so brews just to stay on top of it. Wasn't so much of a faff and managed to do it without melting my face off, so that's a positive!

 

[MashBag]

Excellent news. A plate chiller isn't somewhere you should get grot, but you never know and can't see it if you have.



Of you are thinking of restocking buy caustic TFR. Ready to go and easier to use.

A mate of mine used to mix it. Her tested it the strength as follows..

Stir with aluminium rod. Remove and inspect rod.
A. Not reaction. Not enough caustic.
B. Slight reaction. Basic mix.
C. Fizzy rod. Strong mix
D. No rod. ooo bit too strong

 

[Sadfield]

Using hydrometer is probably less destructive. Here's a useful chart if you want to convert between Baumé, Twaddel, SG, % etc.

If 2%

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Add crystal to water not the other way round when making solutions.

Not sure why a couple of gallons recirculated wouldn't work?

That slimy feeling from caustic is the fat in your skin being saponified.

Go fight club!