Camra

[stz]

What counts as adequate condition is REALLY broad. I've worked with brewers who've fermented beer dry and not primed and those who rack near final gravity, like 1-2 points and those who do a bit of both. I used to be Mr 2 points of residual fermentation EVERY TIME though over time I'm more like Mr half a point will do. For comparison 2 points in a cask would be 233g of sugar. I've met brewers who act like the world is coming to an end with anything more than 40g and they've been fine for years. I used to put it down to their true final gravity wasn't accurate, but it isn't that simple.

First is your cold crashing point, temperature, time and method. Second is what your conditioning tank is like. It is possible to crash beer and rack with almost enough life in it for service. You only really need a touch of additional fermentation to complete the job. We also can talk about hop creep.

From my perspective there is also a BIG case for low carbonation. I don't want my beer to stay on a stillage any longer than needed and publicans don't want to store it either so there is a case for building in a carbonation level that is just enough for the showman, but ultimately is quite low. The alternative is you make it super fizzy and then the publican just leaves it pegged for 3-4 days, moans like buggery and there goes 2 days when it could have been enjoyed at its freshest.

 

[peebee]

I've been criticised for a statement in my article referenced in this thread that suggests a "breather" only extends the life of cask beer by a day or two. There are other sources saying they work for much longer (three weeks?). And in my defence I could not come up with the source of the statement I used. But here is another article making the same claim: https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/3qvzokTqO1/. (Although I was only using the ill defined "extension of life" to back up what my article was about).

How trustful that (undated) "beerandbrewing.com" article is another matter. It prattles on about CAMRA's objection to "breathers", yet, as was discussed in this thread, CAMRA dropped such objections totally well over a year ago. The article also reckons "extensive taste testing has failed to demonstrate that the cask breather has any effect other than to extend the service life of a broached cask by an extra day or two". Complete and utter boll ... . A breather maintains a 100% carbon dioxide atmosphere over the beer so the CO2 dissolved in the beer cannot fall below saturation levels for CO2 at zero PSI (about 0.9 volumes at cellar temperature). Without a breather the CO2 in the beer keeps falling because the CO2 over the beer is being diluted with air (containing only about 0.04% CO2). Not that I'd want to drink beer with such low CO2 levels! I think it is typical of the American "craft brewing" lobby to want to hammer the UK CAMRA organisation this way, and pollute the minds of any UK drinker willing to listen to their misinformation …

Damn. I've just ripped to shreds the article that I was holding up to support one of my views about "breathers". I think the term is "I've shot myself in the foot". Guess I need to stay away from any guns then.

 

[PeterB]

Not all keg beer is bad... https://wb.camra.org.uk/2019/06/02/live-craft-keg-beer-debuts-at-the-great-british-beer-festival/

 

[-Bezza-]

Not all keg beer is bad... https://wb.camra.org.uk/2019/06/02/live-craft-keg-beer-debuts-at-the-great-british-beer-festival/

Perfectly summarised in this quote: "The revival of beer in the UK owes a huge debt to CAMRA and it’s great to see that they’re moving with the times and listening to what modern drinkers want from their beer. We produce both cask and keg beer but its undeniable that some beer styles such as IPA’s and Lagers suit cold keg dispense."

I hope they station the St John's ambulance guys next to this stand, cos I'm sure some poor chap will give himself an aneurysm over this.

 

[kelper]

I can't think of any keg beer that is as enjoyable as a cask-conditioned beer. (I'm excluding craft breweries as I don't have enough experience of their kegged beer.) I suspect that pasteurisation ruins kegged beer. If I enter a pub and it has no hand pumps, I leave. Kegged beers always seem to be served too cold. In Florida, I would enjoy an ice cold beer, served in a glass from the freezer. But their beer tasted disgusting at room temperature.

 

[BassoonBrew]

My main issue with CAMRA now is the GBBF. In the ever ongoing quest to make it "bigger" and "better", the British beer is increasingly marginalised. There are plenty of other events and bars where you can get beer from other countries, but the Great British Beer Festival continues to expand its foreign stands and decrease the space for local beers.

 

[bobukbrewer]

Maybe it is time for a new organisation - UKmicros is a good name - they could organise their own festivals, local, regional, UK wide - I would go to a venue where say 10 microbreweries put up about 30 beers over a Friday lunchtime to Saturday 10 pm

I know there is SIBA but I think we need more than that......

 

[stz]

The main issues I encounter with keg vs cask are usually down to misunderstanding. Sometimes it seems a bit like wilful ignorance, but if people aren't open to new ideas, changing their minds or whatever then I'm not interested in being drawn into their argument. Usually they are just rehashing their own prejudices for their own satisfaction. Maybe it isn't keg beer tastes bad, it is the keg beer you've had isn't as good.

If you look at exclusively macro keg offerings then yeah, they can be a pretty poor bunch and the business practices are the sort of thing that CAMRA push back against so I can see why so many are distrustful. I don't think that many of them are pasteurised though. I go into a pub and their 'craft keg' section is hop house 13/goose island/camden et al then I know that they aren't on my level beer wise and everything else is probably also going to be pretty bad.

The big boys entering into an ersatz 'craft keg' market is basically a strategic foot in the door for these companies for the purpose of excluding micro breweries. Want to offer some of that trendy craft stuff? We've got you covered mate, take the hop house 13 on keg, we'll give you a massive discount on your becks, stella, bass etc. The handles are now taken and the pub can't buy anything from a local brewer.

The real shame is that a lot of these pubs really believe they are offering products which cater to the craft beer drinker. What do you mean there is nothing good on? We've got this premium hop house 13, that is craft!

 

[kelper]

Can anyone recommend a keg beer that is widely available? I won't find it in the Highlands but would try it in England if I ever travel south.

 

[bobukbrewer]

Can anyone recommend a keg beer that is widely available? I won't find it in the Highlands but would try it in England if I ever travel south.

John Smith's or for you - Deuchars IPA

 

[bobukbrewer]

in Irish Kevin's bar, Florida...

TAP LIST
Updated on Jun 24, 9:54 AM EDT

Mango Blonde Ale Blonde Ale

4.8% ABV

20 IBU

Veza Sur Brewing Co.






Island Life Lager - American Light

4.1% ABV

The Waterfront Brewery

Key West, FL



Lazy Way IPA IPA - American

6.5% ABV

The Waterfront Brewery

Key West, FL


Stiegl Radler Grapefruit Naturtrüb Shandy / Radler

2% ABV

8 IBU



Hopsecutioner IPA - American

7.3% ABV

71 IBU

Terrapin Beer Co.



Toasted Lager Lager - American Amber / Red

5.5% ABV

28 IBU

Blue Point Brewing Company




Belgian White Witbier

5.2% ABV

10 IBU

Shock Top Brewing Co.

St Louis, MO



Milk Stout Nitro Stout - Milk / Sweet

6% ABV

25 IBU

Left Hand Brewing Company

Longmont, CO


Love Street Kölsch

4.9% ABV

20 IBU

Karbach Brewing Co

Houston, TX



Key Lime Cider Cider - Traditional

5.5% ABV

3 Daughters Brewing

Saint Petersburg, FL
More Info ▸
This cider is light in color with a bitter fruit aroma. The bitterness of the key lime juice mixed with the sweet apple cider helps to balance out the taste.

Jai Alai IPA - American

7.5% ABV

70 IBU

Cigar City Brewing

Tampa, FL



Magners Original Irish Cider Cider - Traditional

4.5% ABV

Magners Irish Cider

Clonmel, Munster





Blood Orange Sunset IPA IPA - American

6.7% ABV

South Beach Brewing Company

Miami Beach, FL


Crazy Lady Honey Blonde Ale Blonde Ale

5.6% ABV

The Waterfront Brewery

Key West, FL


Space Dust IPA IPA - American

8.2% ABV

62 IBU

Elysian Brewing Company

Seattle, WA



Iguana Bait Honey Hibiscus Kölsch Kölsch

5.2% ABV

21 IBU

Florida Keys Brewing Co

Islamorada, FL
Serving Sizes: 16oz Draft



Bass Pale Ale Pale Ale - English

5% ABV

49 IBU

Shamlesbury, Lancashire

More Info ▸
A classic pale ale. This version of Bass for the North American market at 5% to comply with USA ale regulations.

Serving Sizes: 16oz Draft


Bud Light Lager - American Light

4.2% ABV

6 IBU

St. Louis, MO



Serving Sizes: 16oz Draft


Floridian Hefeweizen Hefeweizen

5.2% ABV

12 IBU

Funky Buddha Brewery

Oakland Park, FL


Serving Sizes: 16oz Draft


Guinness Draught (Nitro) Stout - Irish Dry

4.2% ABV

45 IBU

St. James's Gate, Dublin


Serving Sizes: 16oz Draft


Harp Premium Lager Lager - Euro Pale

4.5% ABV

21 IBU

St. James's Gate, Dublin


Serving Sizes: 16oz Draft


Islamorada Ale (Citrus Ale) Blonde Ale

5% ABV

19 IBU

Islamorada Beer Company

Islamorada, FL


Serving Sizes: 16oz Draft


Landshark Lager Lager - American

4.6% ABV

15 IBU

St. Louis, MO

Serving Sizes: 16oz Draft


Smithwick's Red Ale - Irish

4.5% ABV

St. James's Gate, Dublin



Serving Sizes: 16oz Draft


Stella Artois Lager - Euro Pale

5% ABV

24 IBU

Leuven, Vlaams-Brabant



Serving Sizes: 16oz Draft


Reef Donkey Pale Ale - American

5.5% ABV

36 IBU

Tampa Bay Brewing Company

Tampa, FL


Serving Sizes: 16oz Draft

Displaying all 26 items

 

[bobukbrewer]

see the only one with an image ?

 

[MickDundee]

Can anyone recommend a keg beer that is widely available? I won't find it in the Highlands but would try it in England if I ever travel south.

John Smith's or for you - Deuchars IPA

***** unless it’s on cask and £1.79 in my local Spoons.

 

[kelper]

I'm looking for recommendations for a good keg beer (but not a lager) in the UK that is widely available. John Smiths is not to my taste. Scottish ales, like Deuchars, seem to taste like caramel. They say caramel has no effect on taste but I notice it. I think most of the canned craft beers are too hoppy. So far only Guinness does it for me. So I drink at home.

 

[Sadfield]

Adnams do their beers in both cask and keg, I believe.

 

[MickDundee]

I'm looking for recommendations for a good keg beer (but not a lager) in the UK that is widely available. John Smiths is not to my taste. Scottish ales, like Deuchars, seem to taste like caramel. They say caramel has no effect on taste but I notice it. I think most of the canned craft beers are too hoppy. So far only Guinness does it for me. So I drink at home.

Other than Guinness, what beers do you like?

I know you said “not a lager” but Harviestoun Schiehallion is widely available in keg in Scotland.

Around Tayside, 71 Brewing beers are becoming more widely available, all of it is kegged AFAIK. I love their Mandarina Sky and Left Coast IPA (the former started as a special/seasonal beer and became part of their core range, the latter is currently seasonal but looks like going the same way). They might be too hoppy for you though.

 

[kelper]

TT Landlord is my favourite. I loved the St Peter's IPA kit. I also love Woodeforde's Nog and Wherry. I hate Hobgoblin. Speckled Hen is OK. I'm looking forward to my Razorback IPA in two weeks and just about to start Munton's IPA. My wife also drinks IPA's - but her favourite beer is Ilkley's Mary Jane.

 

[Druncan]

Camra members. Awaiting the new vouchers...

Thankfully I only brew and sell keg this year luckily. Fought againts the warming weather and short shelf cask beers for about 10 years. Yes, I used CO2 breathers and even re-kegged cask to extend it's life. Now I don't have time and anyway my own brews sell out consistently. Thankfully people don't care about cask anymore (which is also so sad) Just good tasting brews.

Maybe that's why Mordues couldn't find a buyer?
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/business/business-news/mordue-brewery-put-up-sale-16103519
Is this a sign of the times? I hope not. -their brewery is up on SIBA for sale by auction,,,,,

This year I now also stock Fyne Ales keg beers; Yarl (my fav rave) in keg, now with Peltier chilling!!! North West Coast lager (keg lives in my walk in chiller ) and Sleepyhead Stout. I re-build my bar every night we open. As all my beers and kegs are a labour of love and obsession. But we are fully booked every night and have five local staff on the books. Honest try any Fyne Ales or Lomond brews they are great!

I stock bottles of Nanny State this year for the first time and now stock alcohol free wine. I think that is a more worrying trend.

 

[stevey]

I'm a member, if you like beer festivals you can easily recoup your subs with the free, or discounted entries.
They're more about campaigning to lower the tax on beer and saving pubs from closing now, than the actual beer (even though they relentlessly promote Wetherspoons which are the reason most pubs are closing).

 

[bobukbrewer]

most pubs close because they are not profitable, how can they be if tied to a Brewco ? So they have to try and sell beer that is past its best, thus driving away customers, so they have to sell beer that has turned to vinegar, ad infinitum...