Bittering hops impact

[Sandimas]

I've read of several people using a generic bittering hop for their beers, a high AA hop such as Magnum.

I'm just wondering how much impact the bittering hop has on the flavour of a beer: it is just the case that it produces bitterness, or would you notice the difference if you bittered with Magnum, Fuggles, or even some of the "C" hops such as Cascade or Chinook?

I can see how you may not notice if you have a lot of late hops, but some of the beers I brew have no late hops, just a 60min bittering addition, so I'm wondering if I could use up other hops in these brews rather than keep opening packets of Fuggles, for example, or would that produce a completely different beer?

 

[An Ankoù]

Magnum is my bittering hop of choice as it tends to be fairly neutral and "clean". So if I want to bring out the flavour of another hop, I'll use Magnum for bittering and use the target hop late in the boil, at flameout and/or later. You could use the same hop throughout, of course, as in a SMaSH, but some "aroma" hops can be astringent when used for bittering. Pacific Gem is a case in point as far as I'm concerned. I have to say that this is less an issue when using traditional English hops.

 

[Benfleet Brewery]

That’s a bloody good question. One I’ve often wondered myself. In addition to the question of early hop flavours, I have also read about different types of bitterness produced by different hops (gentle, harsh etc). I’m watching this thread with great interest.

 

[Sandimas]

The reason for my question is that one of my regular brews is a simple British ale with 90% pale malt, 10% crystal and a single bittering addition of Fuggles to about 35IBU. I'm tempted to try it with another hop and I have a lot of Cascade around, but something tells me it wouldn't quite work without a further late hop addition for the "C" hops. I may brew a small batch, just to see.

 

[PhilBrew]

Hi Darell

I can see how you may not notice if you have a lot of late hops, but some of the beers I brew have no late hops, just a 60min bittering addition, so I'm wondering if I could use up other hops in these brews rather than keep opening packets of Fuggles, for example, or would that produce a completely different beer?

... looks to me like you're answering your own question there ... but yeah, it depends what you're doing with the rest of the brew ... if you're going to chuck in a $hit-load of late hops, of course you'll struggle to distinguish the subtle impacts of different bittering hops ... but if you're brewing something with few(er) late additions, then the differences in flavours from different bittering hops are far more likely to be perceptible

Perhaps you might consider asking the question the other way around ... if Magnum are generally considered useful because they provide a clean bittering hop (i.e. with hardly any other flavour impressions added) then what are the flavours that less "clean" hops add when used for bittering

I'll start you off - Fuggles - earthiness

Cheers, PhilB

 

[Burtsbeets]

I've read of several people using a generic bittering hop for their beers, a high AA hop such as Magnum.

I'm just wondering how much impact the bittering hop has on the flavour of a beer: it is just the case that it produces bitterness, or would you notice the difference if you bittered with Magnum, Fuggles, or even some of the "C" hops such as Cascade or Chinook?

I can see how you may not notice if you have a lot of late hops, but some of the beers I brew have no late hops, just a 60min bittering addition, so I'm wondering if I could use up other hops in these brews rather than keep opening packets of Fuggles, for example, or would that produce a completely different beer?

Good question that would make a great ex"beer"iment! You could make a batch of a standard wort then split it off and process differently. Actually, now that I write that...... sounds like a long brew day .

My take on this, is that you tend to go with a high AA hop to minimise the amount of hop mass and extraction of other solubles in the hops which may be perceived as "not nice". So trying to get 35 IBUs from a 2% AA hop would make for a hefty hop addition.

But as for other high AA varieties, here's a little test done by Brulosophy.

https://brulosophy.com/2016/03/07/bittering-hops-high-vs-low-cohumulone-exbeeriment-results/
This was a good read. As a scientist myself I often get lost on Brulosophy's website!

 

[MmmBeer]

I use Magnum widely for bitterring too, because of its clean profile and high AA%. If brewing a dark beer, I have used something more pronounced like Target or Columbus to balance the dark malt flavours. For an English style ale, I would compromise and use a medium AA English hop like Challenger for bittering.

 

[Burtsbeets]

Also, on the note of magnum, I brewed a simple brew of clean pilsner malt (with 3% crystal 60) and magnum at 60 (13 IBU), 30 (6.0 IBU), 15 (5.2 IBU) and 5 (4 IBU) minutes with a little dry hop(1.5 g/L), fermented with S-05. It was so clean, crisp and balanced. It is definitely on my brewing calendar of the next few months.

 

[stubrewworx]

I do 30 min boils, so would my bittering hop (added at 30) impart more flavour than at 60 min?

But then I also cool in the boiler for approx 16hrs.....

 

[An Ankoù]

I do 30 min boils, so would my bittering hop (added at 30) impart more flavour than at 60 min?

But then I also cool in the boiler for approx 16hrs.....

More flavour, but less bitterness. You need about 60 minutes to get best bitterness out of your hops, possibly more. A lot of the flavour will have boiled off, too, after 30 minute, but not as much as after 60+.

Here's a rough guide I've been using roughly since the 90s, but I think it's a bit earlier than that. Still valid, though, I think.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f1/fd/18/f1fd18ff5b4c05ae68d33426271a59fd.jpg

 

[Burtsbeets]

I do 30 min boils, so would my bittering hop (added at 30) impart more flavour than at 60 min?

But then I also cool in the boiler for approx 16hrs.....

I think once it cools below 80 - 85 degrees C, the isomerisation of the alpha acids stops or becomes a slow enough reaction that it is negligible. So you may still see some bittering properties being pulled out once you stop the boil and it cools.

I would say that, depending on the volatility of the aroma and flavour compounds, you may see some more retained after a 30 minute boil when compared to 60 minute.

Interesting little article

http://scottjanish.com/examination-...s-for-achieving-maximum-hop-aroma-and-flavor/

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I can see how you may not notice if you have a lot of late hops, but some of the beers I brew have no late hops, just a 60min bittering addition, so I'm wondering if I could use up other hops in these brews rather than keep opening packets of Fuggles, for example, or would that produce a completely different beer?

Choice of bittering varieties is an old debate. There's two things to consider with bittering - rough versus smooth bittering, and any flavour contribution. Target is a classic example of a hop with a reputation for "rough" bittering, there's no right on wrong in that regard, some people like a smooth bitterness and some like it rough.

But you seem to be asking about bittering. A lot of lagers rely on the bittering addition for their flavour as well. Only certain flavour compounds survive long boils, notably the oxygenated sesquiterpenes formed from compounds such as alpha-humulene and beta-caryophyllene which are mostly found in varieties that are known for their woody/earthy/herbal flavours like most traditional British hops. Including Fuggles.

So using a variety that is low in alpha-humulene and beta-caryophyllene will mean less of this kettle contribution to flavour. This paper has more detail on oxygenated sesquiterpenes if you're interested : https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1094/ASBCJ-2016-1205-01

I do 30 min boils, so would my bittering hop (added at 30) impart more flavour than at 60 min?

Yes. But you'll only notice with hop varieties that are forming a lot of oxygenated sesquiterpenes in the first place.

FWIW Brulosophy have twice found a difference between 30 minute and 60 minute boils :
https://brulosophy.com/2015/03/11/the-impact-of-boil-length-ale-exbeeriment-results/https://brulosophy.com/2020/09/28/b...tle-addition-in-festbier-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Wynne]

Magnum is my bittering hop of choice as it tends to be fairly neutral and "clean". So if I want to bring out the flavour of another hop, I'll use Magnum for bittering and use the target hop late in the boil, at flameout and/or later. You could use the same hop throughout, of course, as in a SMaSH, but some "aroma" hops can be astringent when used for bittering. Pacific Gem is a case in point as far as I'm concerned. I have to say that this is less an issue when using traditional English hops.

Like @An Ankoù, I use high alpha-acid bittering hops to reduce cost and wort losses to hops. Mostly, I use Apollo (17-19% A/A) or Magnum (13-14% A/A). As @Northern_Brewer describes there are differences in the quality of bitterness depending on the particular alpa acids in the hops and the few non-volatile flavour compounds that remain after a prolonged boil. Most aroma and flavour compounds are evaporated/stripped during the boil. Again, like @An Ankoù, I use late flavour and aroma additions. Mainly, I cool to just below 80 degrees C (to prevent DMS formation) then steep my flavour/aroma hops for 30-40mins mins then cool to fermentation temperature. I plan to try an immediate post-boil transfer to fermenter via a Hop Rocket and plate chiller to see if that produces as good flavour and aroma, whilst saving the kettle cooling and steep time. Using a single bittering hop also means that I end up with fewer remnants of hop packets.

 

[Wynne]

Choice of bittering varieties is an old debate. There's two things to consider with bittering - rough versus smooth bittering, and any flavour contribution. Target is a classic example of a hop with a reputation for "rough" bittering, there's no right on wrong in that regard, some people like a smooth bitterness and some like it rough.

But you seem to be asking about bittering. A lot of lagers rely on the bittering addition for their flavour as well. Only certain flavour compounds survive long boils, notably the oxygenated sesquiterpenes formed from compounds such as alpha-humulene and beta-caryophyllene which are mostly found in varieties that are known for their woody/earthy/herbal flavours like most traditional British hops. Including Fuggles.

So using a variety that is low in alpha-humulene and beta-caryophyllene will mean less of this kettle contribution to flavour. This paper has more detail on oxygenated sesquiterpenes if you're interested : https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1094/ASBCJ-2016-1205-01



Yes. But you'll only notice with hop varieties that are forming a lot of oxygenated sesquiterpenes in the first place.

FWIW Brulosophy have twice found a difference between 30 minute and 60 minute boils :
https://brulosophy.com/2015/03/11/the-impact-of-boil-length-ale-exbeeriment-results/https://brulosophy.com/2020/09/28/b...tle-addition-in-festbier-exbeeriment-results/

I’ve read both the Brulosophy Exbeeriments. The first, with 24 tasters, concluded that there was no ststististically significant difference in the results from the triangle test between the beers with 60 minute and 30 minute additions. The second, with a single taster who knew the nature of the difference between the beers, did find a difference. Results from a single taster in those circumstances cannot be relied on but do suggest that there may be a difference. Repeating the experiment with more tasters and, perhaps, various boil lengths would be interesting. Shortening the boil without detracting from flavour would have many benefits.