Benefits of using reverse osmosis water?

[Gopher]

I'm just about to start my first brew so I am very much a newbie but the scientist in me was thinking about the purity of the water I'm going to be putting in my brew.

As far as brewing goes exactly how pure does the water need to be?
I am starting simple with a kit but will there be a difference between kit brewing and the inevitable upgrade to AG?

The reason I ask is I have access to as much filtration as you can throw a large stick at at work. Reverse osmosis, activated carbon, electro de-ionization, electro dialysis, the works. We can get about as close to just H and O as possible with current science.

How much trouble do I need to go to if any at all to give myself a fighting chance of producing a half decent beer?

 

[Brewerboy]

I just use tap water but I know people use mineral water and such.
I think that the purer the better so I'd say if you have that stuff available make use of it.
I do put a campdem tablet in my water to remove chlorine and stuff.
Good luck brewing but as I say I use tspmwater and to me my beer tastes fine but I'm no conisoure.

 

[pittsy]

Hello ,when brewing we need/want the ideal water . This depends on what we want to brew , it's all about mashing the grains with water with the ideal ion (calcium, magnesium etc) amount . However this part of the brewing process has already been done with kit and extract brewing ( not partial or all grain ) so you are better getting water with low or no ion content to make a better beer so yes use it for kit and extract brewing . For partial and all grain you would need to build up the ion content with things like gypsum and so on .

 

[Dave1970]

You might get some benefit from making a kit with RO water compared to tap

For AG it would represent a 'blank canvas' that you can add known minerals to.

I use RO water (from a tropical fish shop) if I make AG lager. My tap water has too many minerals for lager but diluted with about 2/3rds RO to 1/3 tap it's about right. It's also great for mixing up Starsan sanitiser that lasts much longer made with RO water.

 

[rpt]

On its own RO water is not suitable for brewing, even kits. The yeast needs calcium and IIRC magnesium. But RO water with some gypsum and epsom salts is probably good. You won't need to worry about removing chlorine and chloramine.

 

[desmosteve]

Burton on Trent didn't achieve its reputation for excellent beer by being the home of reverse osmosis plant! :drink:

 

[Aleman]

On its own RO water is not suitable for brewing, even kits. The yeast needs calcium and IIRC magnesium. But RO water with some gypsum and epsom salts is probably good. You won't need to worry about removing chlorine and chloramine.

The kit manufacturer would have taken that into account when mashing the grain before concentrating the wort. The kit contains all the minerals that were present in the original wort. . . . Making a kit up with RO water means the wort is as close to what the manufacturer intended.

 

[Sly Fox]

The kit manufacturer would have taken that into account when mashing the grain before concentrating the wort. The kit contains all the minerals that were present in the original wort. . . . Making a kit up with RO water means the wort is as close to what the manufacturer intended.

Are you sure? I've never seen how they are made, but if I were designing a kit I'd work on the assumption that it would be made up with tap water...

 

[Aleman]

The kit manufacturer would have taken that into account when mashing the grain before concentrating the wort. The kit contains all the minerals that were present in the original wort. . . . Making a kit up with RO water means the wort is as close to what the manufacturer intended.

Are you sure? I've never seen how they are made, but if I were designing a kit I'd work on the assumption that it would be made up with tap water...

Given how the tap water varies here in the UK from the ultra soft waters of Scotland, North west England and the south west, to the ultra hard waters of the South East, it's impossible to take that into account. As profit is the ultimate aim of the kit manufacturer, they will ensure that the mash conditions are ideal . . ie most efficient, which includes using an 'ideal' water profile. . . . the wort is extracted from the mash and then concentrated . . . which concentrates all the minerals as well. . . . using tap water will provide additional minerals, but even using RO water (and mine is damn near RO) there will be sufficient minerals in the wort of the kit to ensure that fermentation and flocculation etc proceed 'properly'.

 

[mabrungard]

Using straight RO or distilled water is OK for brewing, even all-grain. However, that beer may be more bland and flavorless than you prefer. Those ions can add flavor.

With respect to calcium in brewing. Barley and wheat contain substantial calcium, magnesium, and potassium content and that is imparted to the wort. There is NO requirement for calcium in brewing water since there is far more available from the malt contribution than required for the yeast function. However if you brew with a very low calcium content water, the yeast flocculation performance is likely to be hindered. This is especially true for ale yeasts since it is this strong tendency for post-fermentation flocculation to clear the beer quickly. The calcium is VERY important for that. In the case of some lager yeasts, calcium can actually be a detriment to fermentation. If a lager yeast that is not acclimated to elevated calcium content is then used in a wort with high calcium content, both maltotriose and maltose metabolism can be reduced. Unfortunately, I found this out first-hand.

In the case of lager yeast, low calcium content water is OK since the extended lagering stage does eventually clear the beer without the need for strong yeast flocculation.

I realize that this information will be news to many brewers. The mantra that 50 ppm calcium is needed in all brewing water is not universally true. While I was partially responsible in spreading that information, I can state that the advice is overstated. There is a huge volume of technical journal articles in the brewing industry that cover the interaction of calcium and magnesium for yeast performance, but it seems that brewers at our level were unaware of this. Yeast require magnesium more than calcium and typical malt provides roughly 3 times the Mg as it does Ca. But when you add a lot of calcium to your brewing water, it can displace Mg from the yeast walls and affect its performance. Add calcium only to the degree needed to supply the flavor ions you desire in your beer and to produce the flocculation response you want from your yeast. In general, 50 ppm + is fine for ale yeast, but may be too much for some lager yeast.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

The trouble with using RO/ DI Resin/ Activated Carbon water is that it strips most of the trace elements out of the water. It does give you a "blank canvass" to build your own profile, but as you probably know its quite hard to "build" at water profile. I have used RO water in a beer once, and it made the brew what as I can only describe as a "hollow" mouthfeel. If your not happy with your water, how about just running it through the activated carbon. This will remove chlorine/chloride...florine/floride, but still leave the trace elements.
RO water is excellent for making wine kits.


Cant believe Ive just mis-spelled .... fluorine...twice

 

[Aleman]

The trouble with using RO/ DI Resin/ Activated Carbon water is that it strips most of the trace elements out of the water.<snip>RO water is excellent for making wine kits.

It is also excellent for making beer kits, all the trace element will have come from the water used to mash the grain, as well as from the grain, as mentioned by Martin. Therefore for kits it is fine to use RO Water . . .

For all grain I'm less convinced, as I brew with water that pretty much resembles RO water straight from the tap, untreated it certainly produces a beer that can be described as 'lacking', the flavours while rounded are flat and lifeless. Adding sulphate and chloride via the calcium salts brings the life back into the beer.

There is no need to replicate a water profile when using RO (Or when not using RO come to that), get the calcium in a good ball park using gypsum and/or calcium chloride and you are good to go. The grist should / will provide all the trace elements required, although a tsp of yeast nutrient wouldn't go amiss in providing additional zinc.

 

[johnnyboy1965]

Flat and lifeless and hollow are good descriptions. Im lucky living in Solihull and having Severn Trent water from the Ebbw Vale.

Sorry, that has come over wrong...the beer brewed using RO water was not flat of lifeless, it was correctly carbonated, it just had a "hollow" mouthfeel.

 

[BillinKC]

Are you fellows able to get a chemical analysis from your local water supply. If so you can know the mineral profile of your water. Then dilute with RO or distilled water to adjust some minerals lower or add some calcium carbonate or gypsum if needed. For my ales I dilute my Kansas City water 50/50 with RO water from the grocery store...then add some calcium chloride. This water has about 75ppm sulfate which makes some good tasting ales. With respect to using straight tap water you need to get rid of chlorine or chloramines...I use potassium metabisulfite or a Campden tablet...works right away.

 

[CaptainMallard]

I'm just about to start my first brew

Hello, and welcome to the wonderful world of brewing! :thumb:

... the scientist in me was thinking about the purity of the water...
...
I have access to as much filtration as you can throw a large stick at at work. Reverse osmosis, activated carbon, electro de-ionization, electro dialysis, the works....

{disclaimer} I am neither a renowned brewer nor a water expert

You are in a unique position to investigate the effect of different water treatments.

IMHO, as a scientist, you'll need a control or baseline, so maybe tap water would be the place to start. I guess the question is "will it produce reasonable beer?" Basically, if you wouldn't drink your tap water, then it won't produce drinkable beer. Is it very hard or over chlorinated? What do visitors from outside the area say about your tap water?

I don't have the options you have, so I just started simply with tap water and had a reasonable brew. I then moved on to bottled water (which might lack ions but has less chlorine), and I've just started treating tap water with Campden tablets.

Good luck with your first brew :thumb: and I'd be interested to hear the results.

 

[rpt]

So is RO water widely available at grocery stores in the US? I've never seen it in a supermarket here but you can get it from a tropical fish shop.

 

[Pjam]

IMHO, as a scientist, you'll need a control or baseline, so maybe tap water would be the place to start.

Now, to me, that does make sense. Though my question is, does the Campden tablet need to be added to the water well before the brewing starts?

 

[johnnyboy1965]

IMHO, as a scientist, you'll need a control or baseline, so maybe tap water would be the place to start.

Now, to me, that does make sense. Though my question is, does the Campden tablet need to be added to the water well before the brewing starts?[/qu
Yes

 

[CaptainMallard]

... does the Campden tablet need to be added to the water well before the brewing starts?

I bought a second bucket with tap, for treating water, and as a bottling bucket. I sanitise; crush half a Campden tablet between two spoons and deposit it into the bucket; fill to 23L and leave for a few minutes for the chlorine to escape. Stir vigorously to dissolve lumps. Draw off what you needed to boil up or chill. When topping up the FV to 23L, allow water to flow through the tap into the FV, aerating the water. I've only done this once so I haven't tried the cider yet, but it seems logical.