Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)

[Lee Brown]

Thanks @Argentum. That's very useful.

So...

61/50 x 367 = 447.7 HC03

447.7-40 = 407.7 to remove (to hit 40 HC03)

407.7/61 = 6.68

6.68/12.1 x 31 = 17.11 mLs - to treat 31 litres of my water for an America style IPA.

Would that give me PH of 5.4 or 4.3?

I would then need to solve the 1:3 calcium to chloride ratio to get the right hoppy profile?

 

[Lee Brown]

Here’s how my friend worked out the mls of PA @75%.

assuming I am aiming for an alkalinity of 40 for an IPA...

(Actual alkalinity- target alkalinity) x total hot liquor volume, then divide by acid addition alkalinity reduction factor. This will give you your acid addition in ml. Acid reduction factor for phosphoric is 470.
(447.74-40) x 31 /470 = 26.89

then it’s down to ratios of acid, malts and salts for PH.

 

[Gobaloon]

It would seem then that the mount of 75% Phosphoric Acid my friend suggested (26.89 mL) would that be way too much?

Thx Lee. I am playing with my water profiles at the moment so this is great for me. Out of interest where are you and how much was the Murphy cost for the water analysis.
Cheers

G

 

[Argentum]

I am of the opinion that Kai Troester (Braukaiser) is behind the Brewers Friend mash pH related software.

 

[strange-steve]

According to Murphy's tech sheet for 75% phosphoric acid, 10ml per hl reduces alkalinity by 32ppm.

That means 0.1ml/l reduces by 32ppm, or 0.0031ml/l per 1ppm of reduction.

So if you want to reduce alkalinity by 320ppm (to leave 47ppm) then:
320 x 0.0031 = 0.992ml/l

Which for 31 litres equals 30.75ml total.

It seems like you're getting a lot of different answers for this, but there is a simple test you can do. Take a known quantity of water (the more the better), say 10l, test the alkalinity with a Salifert KH kit, add 1ml of phosphoric acid, retest the alkalinity. Now you'll know the reduction rate.

 

[Lee Brown]

Thx Lee. I am playing with my water profiles at the moment so this is great for me. Out of interest where are you and how much was the Murphy cost for the water analysis.
Cheers

G

I got mine through BrewUk and they charge £32.99 plus £2.99 postage.

I live mid Essex and the water here is insanely hard.

 

[Lee Brown]

According to Murphy's tech sheet for 75% phosphoric acid, 10ml per hl reduces alkalinity by 32ppm.

That means 0.1ml/l reduces by 32ppm, or 0.0031ml/l per 1ppm of reduction.

So if you want to reduce alkalinity by 320ppm (to leave 47ppm) then:
320 x 0.0031 = 0.992ml/l

Which for 31 litres equals 30.75ml total.

It seems like you're getting a lot of different answers for this, but there is a simple test you can do. Take a known quantity of water (the more the better), say 10l, test the alkalinity with a Salifert KH kit, add 1ml of phosphoric acid, retest the alkalinity. Now you'll know the reduction rate.

thanks strange-Steve. That’s most helpful.

Now all I need is to find a chart for target alkalinities for most beer styles. I believe porters are around 150. Stouts 200. Lager 35.

One day I’ll get my head around salt additions too! It’s all a bit like cracking the Enigma Code.

 

[strange-steve]

OK so let's assume you're brewing an IPA. For this you might want a water profile something like this:

Calcium ~160ppm
Sulphate ~250ppm
Chloride ~50ppm
Alkalinity ~30ppm

This means you want to add roughly 50 calcium, 200 sulphate, 25 chloride, and remove 340 alkalinity. Note these are all approximate, don't be too worried about being a few ppm out, and it's not always possible to get your desired profile.

An addition of 0.35g/l gypsum will add 195 sulphate and 80 calcium.

An addition of 0.05g/l calcium chloride will add 24 chloride and 14 calcium.

An addition of 1.05ml/l of phosphoric acid will remove 340 alkalinity.

Those additions will give the following profile:

Calcium 201ppm
Sulphate 208ppm
Chloride 48ppm
Alkalinity 30ppm

Which actually isn't half bad.

 

[strange-steve]

thanks strange-Steve. That’s most helpful.

Now all I need is to find a chart for target alkalinities for most beer styles. I believe porters are around 150. Stouts 200. Lager 35.

One day I’ll get my head around salt additions too! It’s all a bit like cracking the Enigma Code.

Have a look at these two threads:

Target water profiles by style.

Gypsum and calcium chloride additions.

 

[JhnMcK]

I’m looking at treating my water to see how it benefits my brewing. I’ve asked for a water report from Yorkshire Water but they haven’t been very responsive as of yet. Does anyone know where I can get a water analysis done so I can have a full breakdown of the water? If I get a full report, I can enter the water profile in Beersmith and at least then I can tailor my additions to the beer style

 

[Argentum]

Thanks @Argentum. That's very useful.

Would that give me PH of 5.4 or 4.3?

pH 4.3

Multiply by 0.905 to hit ~5.4-5.5.

 

[Argentum]

So i am using Reverse Osmosis water i should have zero alkilinity am i right? I presume it should be fairly easy to adjust neutral water but still finding it hard. I have gypsum and epsom salts but so far all i have managed is to add 1g per 10l of gypsum for all my beers. Any help steering me in the right direction is much appreciated. :hat:

It depends. Say you are starting out with 300 ppm alkalinity and your RO unit removes 95% of it. You would then have RO water with 15 ppm alkalinity.

 

[Lee Brown]

OK so let's assume you're brewing an IPA. For this you might want a water profile something like this:

Calcium ~160ppm
Sulphate ~250ppm
Chloride ~50ppm
Alkalinity ~30ppm

This means you want to add roughly 50 calcium, 200 sulphate, 25 chloride, and remove 340 alkalinity. Note these are all approximate, don't be too worried about being a few ppm out, and it's not always possible to get your desired profile.

An addition of 0.35g/l gypsum will add 195 sulphate and 80 calcium.

An addition of 0.05g/l calcium chloride will add 24 chloride and 14 calcium.

An addition of 1.05ml/l of phosphoric acid will remove 340 alkalinity.

Those additions will give the following profile:

Calcium 201ppm
Sulphate 208ppm
Chloride 48ppm
Alkalinity 30ppm

Which actually isn't half bad.

That's great.

So, the additions my friend gave me are pretty spot on then.

for 31 litres of total water:

26.89ml Phosphoric Acid 75%
15.87g Gyspum (so4)
6.31g CaCl flakes
Gives HC03 of 40, S04 of 400, Cl 200 and Calcium 170

my Hc03 is 447.74. My S04 is 13.52. And my Chloride is 24.32.

Therefore, I am working off:

447.74 - 40(target alkalinity) x 31 (total water)/470 - to give Mls for 75% Phosphoric Acid

(target s04)400 - 13.52 x 23 (estimated fermentation water)/.56/1000 - to give me grams of Sulphate for style

(target CaCl)200 - 24.32 x 23 /.64/1000 - to give me grams for the Calcium Chloride I need for style.

It would seem that there are always going to be smallish differences due to ranges for each style. I am trying to learn all this as quickly as possible and make sense of it all.

 

[strange-steve]

This is getting a bit confusing now, and somewhat beyond the scope of this beginners guide, but I think this is what you're looking for:

Total mls of phosphoric acid =(current alkalinity - target alkalinity) * water volume * 0.0031

Total grams of Gypsum = (target sulphate - current sulphate) * water volume * 0.0018

Total grams of calcium chloride = (target chloride - current chloride) * water volume * 0.0021

These are the calculations I use in my own spreadsheet, and what the recommendations in this and the more advanced guide are based on.

Note that I'm using alkalinity as CaCO3 values here, not bicarbonate.

 

[Lee Brown]

Apologies, strange-steve. I think I am trying to run before I can walk on this.

Based on your superb style guide, I have created this chart now. I am hoping this is correct. I haven't quite worked out how to increase and decrease calcium effectively, but I suppose all this is about experimenting for the fun of it. It's got to be better than brewing straight up with the hard as nails water I have anyway.

 

[Argentum]

That's great.

So, the additions my friend gave me are pretty spot on then.

Do you have a pH meter?

 

[Lee Brown]

The chloride and sulphate on IPA box are incomplete.

should be:
9.71g of Gypsum
0.92g CaCl

 

[Lee Brown]

Do you have a pH meter?

I have some PH sticks that range from 4.6 to 6.

 

[Lee Brown]

This is getting a bit confusing now, and somewhat beyond the scope of this beginners guide, but I think this is what you're looking for:

Total mls of phosphoric acid =(current alkalinity - target alkalinity) * water volume * 0.0031

Total grams of Gypsum = (target sulphate - current sulphate) * water volume * 0.0018

Total grams of calcium chloride = (target chloride - current chloride) * water volume * 0.0021

These are the calculations I use in my own spreadsheet, and what the recommendations in this and the more advanced guide are based on.

Note that I'm using alkalinity as CaCO3 values here, not bicarbonate.

Phew. Checked my calculations against this method too, and they are very similar. Tiny bit different, but near enough and good enough for me.

Thank you so much for this, guys. In a short space of time, you have really taught me some important info. Keep on learning.

 

[Argentum]

I have some PH sticks that range from 4.6 to 6.

Better test your acid additions on 31 Liters of your water to see if it ends up at 5.4-5.5 pH before you commit to using such large amounts of 75% Phosphoric Acid. pH sticks are notoriously terrible. ColorpHast, which is the likely to be the very best among them read about 0.3 points low, and it goes rapidly down hill from there.