Please read my posts from #791...
Beginners Guide to Water Treatment (plus links to more advanced water treatment in post #1)
- Thread starter strange-steve
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Argentum
Regular.
5.41 Clark hardness ~= 77.3 ppm of total hardness as CaCO3. Based solely upon the 80/20 rule for total hardness (OK, it's an educated guess), in conjunction with the presumption that 5.41 Clark hardness is correct:
0.80*77.3/2.5 = 24.7 ppm Ca++ (this is your estimated ppm value for calcium ions)
0.20*77.3/4.12 = 3.8 ppm Mg++ (this is your estimated ppm value for magnesium ions)
In conjunction with your other reported values as seen in post #791, the above values do not lead to an acceptable cation/anion mEq/L balance.
0.80*77.3/2.5 = 24.7 ppm Ca++ (this is your estimated ppm value for calcium ions)
0.20*77.3/4.12 = 3.8 ppm Mg++ (this is your estimated ppm value for magnesium ions)
In conjunction with your other reported values as seen in post #791, the above values do not lead to an acceptable cation/anion mEq/L balance.
Ok (!)...where to now? The more I try to understand further than the start of the thread the more I get confused...
Argentum
Regular.
Do you have a low priced GH/KH fish tank water test kit? https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshw...NPD6KZY27MH&psc=1&refRID=G1FSKS9WYNPD6KZY27MH
If used properly it will reveal GH total hardness and KH alkalinity. To convert to ppm (mg/L) as CaCO3 multiply each dH value by 17.848
That will still leave you in the dark as to your ppm values for sodium, chloride, and sulfate though.
If used properly it will reveal GH total hardness and KH alkalinity. To convert to ppm (mg/L) as CaCO3 multiply each dH value by 17.848
That will still leave you in the dark as to your ppm values for sodium, chloride, and sulfate though.
I got the salifert calcium and alkalinity. The other values I can get off the water board web site ..
Argentum
Regular.
I'm not familiar at all with Salifert. Are you sure it isn't recording total hardness as CaCO3 (this is not your calcium ion value) and alkalinity as CaCO3? Does it output in ppm (mg/L) units?
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The kits are as Steve uses at the start of this guide..the values are ppm...I think!
Argentum
Regular.
The Salifert value of 75 ppm for hardness (again, not calcium ions) correlates rather well with a Clark hardness of 5.41.
That would be the Clark value off the water report tallying with my actual test.
My tap water tastes fine. Perhaps I'm thinking too much..
My tap water tastes fine. Perhaps I'm thinking too much..
strange-steve
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Nope the Salifert kits measure alkalinity and report in dKH which we then convert to ppm as CaCO3.
strange-steve
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There seems to be some confusion again, I'll see if I can summarise the issue:
1. Clint has a water report from his water supplier which tells him that his water hardness is 5.41 degrees Clark.
2. The report doesn't tell him alkalinity or calcium, but he has two test kits and so can measure those for himself, getting 75 ppm calcium and 91 ppm alkalinity as CaCO3.
3. He was trying to estimate his magnesium from this, but in the process realised that points 1 and 2 don't add up bacause the hardness can't be 5.41 Clark if the calcium is 75 ppm.
Thoughts?
1. Clint has a water report from his water supplier which tells him that his water hardness is 5.41 degrees Clark.
2. The report doesn't tell him alkalinity or calcium, but he has two test kits and so can measure those for himself, getting 75 ppm calcium and 91 ppm alkalinity as CaCO3.
3. He was trying to estimate his magnesium from this, but in the process realised that points 1 and 2 don't add up bacause the hardness can't be 5.41 Clark if the calcium is 75 ppm.
Thoughts?
Thanks...yes that sums it up. Perhaps I should get a water report done. Or stick to the basic as I have been.
Argentum
Regular.
My thought is that the Salifert Kit does not measure calcium ions directly (regardless of reporting units), but rather measures permanent hardness as CaCO3 and also alkalinity as CaCO3 (mostly if not all of which alkalinity is from temporary hardness). But being in the USA I have never seen a Salifert kit. I have used the budget API fish water test kits that titrate for GH and KH. Stay away from their sticks, which are awful for precision.
Argentum
Regular.
The main thing you'll need a solid grasp of is alkalinity. Followed by total hardness, from which can be workably inferred Ca and Mg.
Argentum
Regular.
I see where the Salifert kits are available in the USA, and the calcium test kit does say it's measuring calcium (as opposed to total hardness).
But with Ward Labs being so inexpensive here, it's hard to justify the added cost of the Salifert test kits. Also, it appears that the kits are for use with saltwater and the calcium test states accuracy only to 10 mg/L. These kits appear to me to be best used with seriously hard water.
But with Ward Labs being so inexpensive here, it's hard to justify the added cost of the Salifert test kits. Also, it appears that the kits are for use with saltwater and the calcium test states accuracy only to 10 mg/L. These kits appear to me to be best used with seriously hard water.
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strange-steve
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You're probably right, but mine has always been very close to the value on my water report which is only around 30ppm.
I've looked at water treatment for years, but it baffles me. Homebrew efficiency and ratios stretches my mathematical ability to breaking point as it is. I read on here that "If I'd known how much maths was involved in homebrewing, I'd never had started". I agree 100%, if it wasn't for Beersmith or forums like this one I'd have given up within the first month. F*** knows how people did anything before the internet.
That said I've just found the water treatment calculator (You mean the one on the FRONT PAGE? Yes, that one...) and it looks like it will do me nicely for 90% of my brewing. Luckily United Utilities do a very nice and detailed report. Thank you for all the content on this thread guys it really does prove invaluable for those of us who lack the ability/inclination to learn and remember things in large amounts
That said I've just found the water treatment calculator (You mean the one on the FRONT PAGE? Yes, that one...) and it looks like it will do me nicely for 90% of my brewing. Luckily United Utilities do a very nice and detailed report. Thank you for all the content on this thread guys it really does prove invaluable for those of us who lack the ability/inclination to learn and remember things in large amounts
The thing is I'm a bit OCD with stuff...I will force myself to learn this. I'm just not happy when pieces of the puzzle don't fit or are missing...
I'm the opposite of OCD I'm perfectly happy to be scatty.
That said I really like quality well made beer and if I want to make it, I know I'm best off "Taking what I need and discarding what's irrelevant" to paraphrase Bruce Lee!
Lee Brown
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@strange-steve I did the salifert test and got 8.3dKh = 148ppm. How does this correlate to alkalinity as CaC03 as reported on my Murphy's report? That says Alkalinity as CaC03 is 367. I have emailed them about this, but so far zero response. I am hoping that these two readings aren't meant to be the same, as the highest possible reading of 15.8dkh doesn't even get close to my Murphy's report.
