Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

[JockyBrewer]

Cool!

Replacement battery costs are dropping too:

https://www.carsuk.net/cost-of-replacing-the-nissan-leafs-batteries-drops-90-in-seven-years/

A friend of mine had his battery replaced (at 150,000 miles) by a third party specialist that used a battery recovered from a written off car with only 15,000 miles on it.

From memory it cost him under £500, instead of several grand for an entirely new battery.

 

[stripeyjoe]

I could quite happily own an EV now as my daily commute is probably less than 10 miles round trip

That’s less than 30 minutes on a pushbike!

 

[Chippy_Tea]

That’s less than 30 minutes on a pushbike!

Too many hills and too much rain and i am lazy, i cannot imagine anything worse that getting up on a winters morning its freeing and lashing down and having to cycling to work even worse summer and you are sweating like a pig by the time you arrive at work..

 

[JockyBrewer]

Too many hills and too much rain and i am lazy, i cannot imagine anything worse that getting up on a winters morning its freeing and lashing down and having to cycling to work even worse summer and you are sweating like a pig by the time you arrive at work..

Agree. Tried it, for about a 6 mile commute.

Comedy 2 feet wide cycle lanes peppered with storm drains and potholes that make them difficult to use. Even when you do there’s far too many drivers passing far too close for my comfort. I have no idea how people survive cycling in London.

In comparison I’ve been in awe of the cycle lanes and facilities in both Germany and Denmark.

 

[stripeyjoe]

I tried cycling for my commute, north London to Victoria, but, at around 13 mile, it was a tad too far. Instead I rented space in a secure cycle park at Finsbury Park so I cycled 6 miles to there and got the Tube the rest of the way. We had showers at work so no problem being sweaty all day.
That was all buggered up by Covid, now all I do is go downstairs into my home office. Work are threatening that we need to go into the office twice a week soon, we’ve moved offices to Stratford which would mean a nice towpath cycle down the River Lea.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I suppose i could but an electric cycle but i prefer my heated seats, steering wheel and windscreen they make the short winter commute a little less of a ball ache.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

From my quick search it seems the original cars only had a 24kWh battery then there was a 30kWh option followed by 40kWh and 62kWh.

It's not a function of battery size, AIUI it's more a question that whoever was in charge didn't understand the importance of managing the temperature of the batteries if you want to maximise their lifespan, so the first-gen Leaf didn't have sufficient thermal management, but they fixed that the next time around.

As an aside, Channel4 are doing a series of documentaries tracing the manufacture of various (mostly British) cars, which last night included the electric version of the Mini - it's rather unusual in that they make the electric version on the same production line as the fossil-fuel ones. The actual electrics are inserted in a rather blink-and-you-miss it moment, but one thing they did comment on is that the electric car needs a lot more time on the station where they pour in cooling fluid. They've also done one on the new electric black cab.

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/how-to-build/on-demand/71739-006

 

[robbym123]

I’ve read this thread with a lot of interest. I could really summarise my thoughts as ‘everything Northern Brewer said’.
However, that would be a bit dull.

I was lucky enough to start a new job in the summer with a company that has an EV salary sacrifice lease scheme.

It works a bit like cycle to work, in that payment for the lease comes out of your gross salary, effectively halving the cost.
I haven’t really bothered to calculate the range, because it has been plenty for my use, I reckon somewhere around 300 miles.
I have used a combination of home and public chargers. There is a 50kW charger near us, that is in a perfect spot for taking the dog for a walk. If I plug the car in on 10% and walk for an hour and a bit it is on 90%, at a cost of about £14 (20p/kWh plus £2). That works out at about 6-7p/mile. E7 home charging is about 2-3p/mile.
We also have a Volvo XC60 d5 at home, not exactly a sports car, but quite nice to drive all the same.
In the 7 weeks since the EV arrived it has driven 2000 miles, the Volvo has done 120.
I am completely converted, it is so much nicer to drive, quiet, fast, smooth and economical. I don’t think the avoided fuel bill is paying for the lease, but it is close, close enough that I haven’t bothered to calculate it.
Whilst I know that zero emissions at the point of use is not the same as lifetime zero, I am happy that over the course of a 80’000 mile 4 year lease I will save carbon emissions. Also, I understand that about 50% of the electricity I use today is from carbon emitting sources, but I am happy that with round 3 offshore wind, nuclear, and smaller scale renewables backed by corporate PPA’s the carbon intensity of my fuel will reduce each year. Regarding Lithium, I was interested to read about the Lithium mining start up in Cornwall, I think ‘fair trade’ Lithium selling at a premium is only a matter of time.

 

[AlBrew]

E7 home charging is about 2-3p/mile.

If you're on a Smart meter Octopus Energy have a new (on trial at the moment) tariff call Intelegent Octopus, you plug the car in when you get home and they decide when it charges. You just set the latest time you want it charged by and to what level, it's 5ppkWh which equates to about 1p per mile.

It's an extension of the current Octopus Go tariff that is a fixed 5ppkWh between 00:30 and 04:30 but is extended to 23:30 to 05:30 at the same rate. Any usage between these times is at 5ppkWh so we schedule the dishwasher to run then too.

For reference the cost outside of these times is 23ppkWh (just increased from 13ppkWh).

Im claiming company milage back at 45p per mile, and the only other cost I've had so far is screenwash, so it is a total no brainer for me.

They claim that all of their tariffs are 100% green renewable.

 

[robbym123]

I looked at Octopus Go, but wasn’t aware of this alternative.

there are a couple of slightly dull reasons why I don’t have a smart meter, which will resolve next year.

i think Go is a smart idea, in that the 4 hr overnight rate grabs the attention. I would want to be sure there is an overall saving, you need to use a lot of energy at 4p during those 4 hrs, to make up for the remaining 20 hrs at 23p. I understand that the current spike in prices has a lot to do with this.

hopefully the market will settle down a bit next year, allowing a proper comparison.

 

[AlBrew]

I understand that the current spike in prices has a lot to do with this.

I thought the same, the jump from 13 to 23p had me checking other suppliers. It's not easy to find listed costs for any supplier as far as I can tell, but after pretending to their websites that I was looking to switch suppliers i managed to get quotes for 21p from Eon and 31p(!) from British Gas.

I'm off to see what else I can schedule during the night now

 

[EsterBanana]

Install some leisure batteries at home, top em up at night, run them at the most expensive time of day - sorted!!

 

[robbym123]

I thought the same, the jump from 13 to 23p had me checking other suppliers. It's not easy to find listed costs for any supplier as far as I can tell, but after pretending to their websites that I was looking to switch suppliers i managed to get quotes for 21p from Eon and 31p(!) from British Gas.

I'm off to see what else I can schedule during the night now

I think I am currently on a fixed price deal, somewhere around 17-18p. The best option at the moment at the end of a contract is to do nothing and go onto out of contract rates, that way you get the cap, which is £hundreds cheaper than any fixed price

 

[robbym123]

Install some leisure batteries at home, top em up at night, run them at the most expensive time of day - sorted!!

How much do they cost, it isn’t a case of spending a quid to save a penny is it?.

 

[EsterBanana]

How much do they cost, it isn’t a case of spending a quid to save a penny is it?.

Maybe, you could be right!!!

 

[Justin Dean]

Only a matter of time before car charging electric is taxed up sky high. Sonething will replace tax income on petrol and diesal. Road tax? Anyone charging off their own solar or hydro generating? Too slow?

 

[AlBrew]

Only a matter of time before car charging electric is taxed up sky high. Sonething will replace tax income on petrol and diesal. Road tax? Anyone charging off their own solar or hydro generating? Too slow?

I would guess it would have to be moved to road tax or based on road use. Unless you install a separate meter for the car there's no way of knowing if I used the energy for the car or for the TV (and we already pay TV tax).

I had a small solar install at the last house and in the summer we would get around 15kWh/day (5 in winter?), that's enough for about 50miles per day of driving, although I wasn't driving an electric car then. If you're at work during the day it would need to be used in conjunction with battery storage though so you could charge when you got in, not entirely as efficient, but there are lots of people that don't do more than 40 miles a day. How many can afford solar + battery storage is a different conversation...

One of the biggest problems with solar is actually managing to use the energy you generate while it's sunny and not have the surplus is just gifted to the grid, for new adopters without a generous FIT anyway. With electricity costs increasing as they currently are and battery costs decreasing, the paybacks for a battery install are more likely in single digit years rather than decades, excluding the additional benefits of less net energy being needed on the grid and balancing the peaks on the grid and autonomy in a power cut etc.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Only a matter of time before car charging electric is taxed up sky high. Sonething will replace tax income on petrol and diesal. Road tax? Anyone charging off their own solar or hydro generating? Too slow?

Government has made it pretty clear that they see the future as road pricing - and we already have it in the form of toll roads, toll bridges, London congestion charge etc, and technology such as the black boxes from insurance companies could be adapted for the purpose.

 

[EsterBanana]

Government has made it pretty clear that they see the future as road pricing - and we already have it in the form of toll roads, toll bridges, London congestion charge etc, and technology such as the black boxes from insurance companies could be adapted for the purpose.

Yep - with the bonus that your travel data becomes an additional value added bonus for them to sell to the highest bidder!

 

[johncrobinson]

I agree fuel duty is a massive cash cow they wont let go.
As more people change the cost will go up and up.