Almost given up on homebrew :(

[MyQul]

I agree with the others. It seems the FV may be to blame as you have the infection in both the keg and bottles (this always assumes you cleaned and sanitised the keg/bottles well and killed any infection in them)

I must admit that I was pretty lazy with cleaning the bottles. I rinsed them out and in some cases where there was mould I had a scrub with a bottle brush. But I guess I thought the oven treatment would take care of anything else?

You can't clean dirt! :wink: Bottles are of course hard to clean but it's doable to a good standard.

Any visiable signs of mould get the bottle brush on them. Then use oxiclean (1tsp/5L). It's very good at cleaning organic matter but make sure you rinse the inside and outside of the bottles thoroughly else it leaves a residue - Then oven em

I read something on cleaning/sanitising a while back (I think it might have even been by the guy that invented star san) and it stated that lots of HBers get the dilution rates of sanitisers wrong making them almost useless but what saves them from getting an infection is having cleaned the kit (and therefore the microbes away) to an adequate level.

microbes can form a biofilm which if you don't clean throroughly the microbes can hide under then just regrow even after sanitising

 

[MyQul]

This is like an episode of House, only with sickly beer as opposed to patients.

I'm afraid I'm stumped, matey. Sounds like you did everything right. Sorry to sound dim but was all of the bottled beer ok?

Sound's more like an episode of BruinTuins, remember that poor guy? He had only just started brewing and got about 3 or 4 (may be more) brews infected in a row. Like you Tim his beer tasted fine to start out but gradually got worse and worse. Think he must have packed it in havn't seen him on the forum since

 

[GrizzlyKolsch]

Thanks mate I really appreciate all the comments and support on here! I think I will definitely get a new FV if this latest brew doesn't work out. I wanted to try bottling partly to rule out my keg being the issue. And now that seems not to be the cause (as bottles are also spoilt) I guess the FV is the next main thing. It seems that the beer is good when it comes out of the FV - but is it possible that the damage could be done, but just not materialised at that stage?

I was given a reasonable well-used FV a while ago which I've been using. It says on it that it is a wine fermenter, and has a screw-on lid just the same as a king-keg lid. I really like it because the lid has a rubber bung with an airlock hole so it works great for getting a good seal etc. But maybe this FV is the cause of all my issues?! Obviously I have given it a really good scrub with a rough sponge and I thought I had it really clean. But something sure ain't right!

To be honest I had pondered that maybe I just have unrealistic expectations and the beer is actually okay. But the two pints of Greene King IPA that I managed to finish last night in my local con club suggest otherwise as they were pretty rank and I still gladly polished them off! The stuff I am turning out - even an old biker who has just been rescued from a week in the Sahara wouldn't touch!

Tim - what kind of equipment do you brew with?

Do you have any valves on your kettle?

How do you transfer from the kettle to your fermenter?

Sorry if these questions have already been asked, but I thought I'd chime in..

 

[ceryni]

Newbie here, not an expert, first post.

I'm nowhere near as meticulous as you guys sound with sterilisation, and I'm yet to find out if my batch conditions well using the technique my dad taught me (which makes perfect sense to me, let me know if you want to hear it)
I suck to siphon, but not with bic lids or what not, I started with cider, not yet had a single brew go bad. I drink them pretty quickly mind you.
Here, my Norfolk water tastes good after a week in a reusable bottle, and the Suffolk stuff at my parents houses (divorced) tastes vile after 2 days max.

Maybe its the water? That said, my dads beer is good.

 

[ManseMasher]

Newbie here, not an expert, first post.

I'm nowhere near as meticulous as you guys sound with sterilisation, and I'm yet to find out if my batch conditions well using the technique my dad taught me (which makes perfect sense to me, let me know if you want to hear it)
I suck to siphon, but not with bic lids or what not, I started with cider, not yet had a single brew go bad. I drink them pretty quickly mind you.
Here, my Norfolk water tastes good after a week in a reusable bottle, and the Suffolk stuff at my parents houses (divorced) tastes vile after 2 days max.

Maybe its the water? That said, my dads beer is good.

I think most brewers border on OCD when it comes to sterilisation (at least I am). As for water, as fresh as possible for brewing, and use a Campden tablet (1/2 for 23 litres is enough) and see if that gets rid of the taste.

 

[Godsdog]

My two penneth guys,I'm not a fussy sterelizer in 40 odd years of brewing around 20 times a year I've only had 2 go down the drain outside, have occasionally used sodium metabisulphate on the fv and plastic kegs but more often than not use just household unscented bleach souloution and a good rinse out,AND i have always sucked the syphon to get it going,with the bleach you just need to be careful with it rotting the rubbers on the cap and vslve

 

[Fore]

Maybe Tim's given up.

My only failed brew in 20 years was poor rinse after using VWP. Beer tasted like TCP. I didn't even know what the problem was at the time; only with further experience and education did I figure it out. For me it can only be that.

Some people brew with lids off to ferment with wild yeast. Every now and again the yeast won't be a good one and you'll end up with a dog, but every time??? Must be process. Tim thinks the problem occurs late, in the barrel, but it can just seem to appear late and could just as easily started with first contact in the fermenter. The TCP takes time to take over. VWP works, but must be rinsed away very well.

I starsan now and will never look back. It's even cheaper per use, and you can spray on demand. Sterilisation is a mad rush for me; "oh god I forgot the spoon", but no probs when the wait is max. 2 mins.

 

[timcunnell]

Maybe Tim's given up.

Ah fear not I am still here! Actually, thanks to the friendly and very knowledgeable folk on here I am delighted to say that I have found a new lease of life with my brewing, In fact, I've hardly bought any beer for drinking at home in a long time. I've pulled off a number of brews now without any failures or infections, and I think Star San and avoiding oxidising when racking have been the key!

 

[clibit]

Ah fear not I am still here! Actually, thanks to the friendly and very knowledgeable folk on here I am delighted to say that I have found a new lease of life with my brewing, In fact, I've hardly bought any beer for drinking at home in a long time. I've pulled off a number of brews now without any failures or infections, and I think Star San and avoiding oxidising when racking have been the key!

That's great news Tim - Star San is fantastic stuff, IMO. I have never had a problem since I started using it.

Happy brewing.

 

[glynb]

This may help.. https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/5-common-homebrew-flavors-fix/ it was posted on here a while back I think.

 

[ceryni]

Maybe Tim's given up.

My only failed brew in 20 years was poor rinse after using VWP.

What on earth is that? VWP?

 

[Covrich]

What on earth is that? VWP?

It is a powerful steraliser and cleaner.. does the job but its very strong and needs to be thoroughly rinsed.. I still have a pot for times if I ever need to give something a good soak but as long as something is clean the no rinse steralisers are fine.

 

[Tony1951]

I've been using VWP at a more diluted concentration - about 1tsp per 2 or 3 gallons and it cleans well. I tend to leave a solution of it in unused FVs and drop my plastic gear and tubes and such in it - hydrometer and so on. I just take stuff out and rinse it thoroughly and use it as needed. Works for me. I do have one of those no rise oxygen steriliser compounds too which I use for bottles and such. I make up a strong solution ( half a TSP in a half a litre of water in a spray bottle and before bottling, I spray it into the bottles about three squirts and move them so the small amount runs all over the inside. Then I leave them a while and then rinse lightly just before bottling. The bottles are triple rinsed and shaken immediately after pouring the beer so they are clean to the eye. It seems the oxy clean just makes sure there are no bugs or at least that they are knocked right back.

Beer is naturally antimicrobial so if the bottles and kit are clean, there isn't much chance of it going bad. There is a proper emphasis on keeping stuff clean, but at times the level of emphasis on it is over the top - perhaps. Just my opinion, but there we are. Dirty brewing is one thing - frantic over anxiety is another. The homebrew brewhouse isn't dealing with foot and mouth so maybe we just keep stuff clean, rinse and relax.

 

[Racinsnake]

Music to my ears Tony :party: someone with common sense as well.
The only point we differ slightly on is, I tried the soaking in VWP but found the water had a sort of scum/mold on after a week, and researching I found it's not designed for that.
It's also cheaper and goes further than some no rinsers too.

 

[Tony1951]

Music to my ears Tony :party: someone with common sense as well.
The only point we differ slightly on is, I tried the soaking in VWP but found the water had a sort of scum/mold on after a week, and researching I found it's not designed for that.
It's also cheaper and goes further than some no rinsers too.

Yes Racinsnake - I noticed that my rubber syphon tube goes sort of slimy. Maybe I'd be better just washing and drying them and spraying them with oxy stuff before use.

Looking forward to getting my next Geterbrewed IPA into bottles in the next few days. Go - that stuff smells good. It's the Real English IPA.... Smells great. Can hardly wait.