Almost given up on homebrew :(

[redhousebrewing]

A couple of suggestions...
- Try the beer before bottling / barreling - will help establish if it is going wrong before or after that point.
- Try bottling or split a batch into bottles and barrel (ideally then purge the extra airspace of the barrel with CO2).

PET bottles are very convenient - I use 1 litre tonic water & 2 litre fizzy drink bottles as well as crown cap bottles - just don't leave the clear bottles exposed to sunlight while conditioning.

I use starsan as it makes sanitising easy and also half a campden tablet in the brewing water but other than that just follow the instructions (and give it extra time to really complete primary fermentation).

HTH and don't give up :nono:
Stuart

 

[winstonia]

I've made at least 30 AG brewdays without any issue(well one got dumped actually) but all done sucking on my siphon.

Always use starsan and never open your bucket to "see" how the beer looks or smells or anything would be my #1 feedback

 

[Redron]

There are some people on this forum who seem totally paranoid about sanitation, and some who don't sanitize anything at all but still end up with good beer every time. I fall into this last camp, nearly, I just splash a bit of boiling water about to sanitize things a bit, and I don't seem to have trouble. Sure there are bacteria everywhere, in your mouth, on your hands, floating around in the air even - but they aren't necessarily the types of bugs that make beer go off. Worst offenders in my opinion are those connected with flies, and those found in drinking water - everyone knows the water system is full of leaky pipes, everyone knows drinking water pipes are laid under the road right next to sewerage pipes, but then they just turn their taps on and assume the stuff coming out is good wholesome clean water.
Maybe the reason I don't have problems with beer going bad is because I boil all my water!

Absolutely agree. I have just written up notes on my 40th brew with no failures, and I too, am what may be considered lax, with my 'sanitation' procedures. Don't get me wrong, my procedures are very clean, but not obsessive. I won't bore you with the details, but once all my stuff is clean and sterilised with VWP and rinsed I am not too worried about air exposure or popping my stir paddle in the clean sink between stirs etc. My hands get cleaned/sterilised during the clean up procedure prior to brewing/bottling.
That said, as has been mentioned here before, you cannot sterilise dirt so clean it, sterilise it , and stop worrying ......!

 

[glynb]

Hi,
If there is a vinegar kind of taste it could be there's a leak on that king keg of yours and air is getting in or air has been left in. I tend to purge my tank as soon as I've racked my ale into it. It may help to get some food grade petroleum jelly ( I use this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271191106592?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT ) and lubricate the big rubber seal on the lid as this will help form a good seal. I then gas my keg with the lid slightly loose as the co2 pushes out the air then I tighten it up bloody sharpish so no air can get back in.

I wouldn't give up though as once you've made a cracker, there's no stopping!

 

[rodabod]

We don't all live in the same environment, so it's difficult to compare sanitation techniques and then state what is necessary. For example, how clean is your house? Who has pets in the house? We can't see bacteria, so it's difficult to see how infections happen.

 

[lukehgriffiths]

To help with syphoning tap the FV so you don't have to...
Sounds like barrel is issue though.
You seem to be sanitising a lot... scrub all elements with a barrel or bottle brush. When sanitising the barrel what is being used?

I used star san on caps but found it was rortting the rubber... causing co2 escape and letting the dreaded oxygen in! Now I rinse in boiled water... no problems.

 

[timcunnell]

Hi guys - thank you all so much for the helpful responses and advice!
I feel really bad for starting this thread and then vanishing all of a sudden and not responding to all your comments and advice. (couple of unforeseen days out of the office/no internet!).
All the advice sounds really helpful actually - and I now have renewed hope that I can brew some decent beer!
Just to briefly touch on what exactly was wrong with the previous batches, it is sort of hard to explain it (for me at least!) but all I can really say is that it all had the same bad taste (though different beers). It just tasted rank! Not really bitter/sour I wouldn't say. But the smell was just really off, and taste was dreadful. I am not the sort of bloke to return a pint in a pub when it isn't quite right to be honest, I will drink most things! But definitely not this. A couple of guys mentioned TCP and I think from memory this is quite close, smell-wise.
Anyway - I do think the beer was good when coming out of the FV (unless of course the bacteria was in, but hadn't taken hold. But from what I can tell, it seemed okay (tasted like flat, unconditioned beer - quite nice really!) every time - but after a week or so I tasted a sample and it was already starting to go wrong. Each time, the beer has also never cleared. Not sure if that is an indication of anything in particular, but I've given it a month or even six weeks - just to see if it got any better. But sadly not!
I definitely agree with you guys who are suggesting there is a problem either with the transfer to keg, or with the keg itself. I have been planning for a while to start bottling, and have collected about 60 beer bottles from all the beer that I have had to buy because I can't brew any!! So I think it definitely sounds like a really good suggestion to have a go at bottling some of a batch, and kegging the rest. I will try and be more meticulous about sanitising my barrel and especially the tap and lid etc. Hopefully that will all help. Actually interesting enough, when I was brewing decent beer initially I was doing this with those cheap kegs that come with kits. And when I started to get into it I invested in a King Keg, which seemed much better. I expect most of you will be very familiar with these - the best feature is that they have a much larger opening, which means you can get your whole arm in to clean them. I thought this would help, but I am not sure I've actually had a good batch since getting the King Keg!
Anyway - I have today received an "American-style IPA" kit, and an auto-syphon. So if I have time tonight I shall get brewing, and see if I can make it all the way to some drinkable beer. Wish me luck!
Cheers
Tim

 

[Spapro]

Good luck with the latest kit.

Is your king keg top tap or bottom tap ?

Make sure you sanitise the tap by running some sanitiser through it. If its top tap then make sure the float and float tube etc all gets well sanitised. Starsan has been mentioned quite a bit on here and is defo worth getting hold of. Makes sanitising so, so easy - no reason not to sanitise when its so easy to use/re-use.

 

[timcunnell]

Good luck with the latest kit.

Is your king keg top tap or bottom tap ?

Make sure you sanitise the tap by running some sanitiser through it. If its top tap then make sure the float and float tube etc all gets well sanitised. Starsan has been mentioned quite a bit on here and is defo worth getting hold of. Makes sanitising so, so easy - no reason not to sanitise when its so easy to use/re-use.

Thanks :)
I have a bottom tap version. I've been hearing lots of good stuff about this Starsan so I am definitely gonna get some of that.

 

[timcunnell]

Guys just another question that has popped into my head. Bit of a daft one really!
I am just not sure how I am meant to be prepping my keg before siphoning my beer into it. What I mean by this is that my usual process has been to fill the keg about 3/4 full with fairly hot water (not boiling) and mix in the steriliser. I then put the lid on and give it all a really good slosh about for a bit. Then I start letting the steriliser fluid out via the tap - until I basically get bored because its taking too long, and unscrew the lid to pour the rest out of the top.
Okay so far maybe!?
But after this and I have tipped out all the sterilizer as much as I can, I am still left with drops of it/residue etc. And I am just not sure whether I ought to be getting in there with a bit of kitchen roll to mop the rest up - or if its okay to leave a few drops still in there? Does it matter?
For the record, what I have been doing is largely leaving a few drops behind. I take it the seriliser can't damage the beer?? Can it??

 

[wheazy_joe]

As long as you have a no rinse sanitiser, like the many times mentioned starsan. If not then you should be rinsing with clean water

 

[Spapro]

Not sure what sanitiser you are using ? If its a true 'no rinse' sanitiser (like starsan) then it should be fine leaving a dribble in the bottom. What sanitiser do you use ?

 

[rodabod]

Leave the drips of sanitiser in there. I sometimes taste a teaspoon of sanitiser to see what it's like (they don't all taste the same) and its never that bad. As long as it's food-safe sanitiser and not bleach!

 

[timcunnell]

Thanks guys. The sanitiser I am using is the white powered stuff that smells a bit like a swimming pool - if that makes sense?!
Sorry that is awful info!1 I get it from Brew UK so I'll find which one it is now and report back!

 

[timcunnell]

This is the one!
http://www.brewuk.co.uk/vwp-cleanser-400-grm.html

 

[glynb]

If you are using VWP, you really need to rinse it all out with clean water. I tend to fill my keg to the brim and let it soak with VWP in for an hour or so then rinse under clean cold water.

 

[timcunnell]

If you are using VWP, you really need to rinse it all out with clean water. I tend to fill my keg to the brim and let it soak with VWP in for an hour or so then rinse under clean cold water.

Thanks mate I will definitely try that then. I'm just so paranoid now that I didn't know if rinsing with tap water was going to undo all the sterilising that I'd just done! But I guess not!
So the question is, do you think the VWP could be causing my beer to taste so bad?? I guess it does seem unlikely as it really isn't much. And I really can't stress enough just how bad this beer tastes!!!

 

[wheazy_joe]

I would be inclined to ditch the VWP and get a no rinse sanitiser.

 

[timcunnell]

I would be inclined to ditch the VWP and get a no rinse sanitiser.

That sounds like a good shout Joe - I am definitely going to order some Starsan with my next order from BrewUK!

I am just hoping I can pull off brewing a drinkable batch to regain my confidence. Its just a Muntons starter kit this one, so surely I can't go wrong!? But I really want to get back on the extract kits which definitely taste better I think. (Well - at least the should!!). Worst bit is the time it takes to brew the extract kits, only to end up tipping it all down the sink!

But yeah, next brew I am def getting some Starsan!

 

[wheazy_joe]

My starter kit came with VWP and it was fine for my first brew, but having to sanitise then rinse EVERYTHING was a nightmare, especially 40 bottles! After that I got some no rinse sanitiser and has been a real time saver.