AG49 Vermont IPA

[Sadfield]

Has anybody tried using lactose in this style to try and get the silky mouthfeel? Or would that leave too much sweetness? I'm going to try to do one very soon, just picked up a vial of yeast bay Vermont yeast.


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Could be an interesting twist on it, haven't used it in this style but have added to a pale ale and find it gives a fatty, creamy feeling on the lips in the way ice cream does.

 

[Ajhutch]

Could be an interesting twist on it, haven't used it in this style but have added to a pale ale and find it gives a fatty, creamy feeling on the lips in the way ice cream does.

I've only ever used it in a stout but yeh, well characterised.m. I think you're right to call it a twist, so something I will save for v2 or later! I'm going to go with a more conventional grain bill that I'd already ordered, I bought oat malt and had bought flaked wheat not the other way around so that's my twist! Going for it tomorrow, I've weighed out my grains and treated my mash and sparge water, I'll be fitting it in around the kids' activities.


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[Leon103]

Drinking @Hoddy NEIPA. Will let you know how it goes

 

[Leon103]

A little review of @hoddy NEIPA.

I had already been warned that it may turn out brown instead of the hazy orange you expect with the style but I was still surprised by the colour. Very odd, I can't really say what may have caused it, especially if the kegged version was spot on.

On pouring a massive head that stayed all the way down the glass with good lacing. On showing the wife she said that looks oaty with that big head.

Big hop aroma, perhaps not as much as I would have expected from reading various recipes on the style. A bit bitter on entering mouth but it is so smooth it mellows out. Wife said it was very nice and I had to fight to get it back. I think this would be bang on if you got to the colour issue or call it a NEBA New England brown ale.

I don't like comparing HB to commercial beer but it gives us all something to work off. To be honest I haven't had many NEIPA and most have left me a bit disappointed, I think some Brewers are finding them difficult. I popped into a bar after work that as a bottle shop and spoke to the guy there about the NEIPA craze and he pointed me to a can of Perfectionless by Redwillow Brewery. He said it was the best NEIPA he tasted so I have just poured that. Hmm not sure if it is the best, he should try @hoddy version, much better. This has a nice colour but really lacks the hop aroma and flavour hops and yeast aren't listed but I guess they haven't used much and there is less oats.

@hoddy thanks for the swap, I really enjoyed it. Best NEIPA I have had, perhaps until I taste mine lol.

I bottled Wednesday, I am away next week but when I back I will post one out in return.

 

[Hoddy]

Hey @leon thanks for the review. Seriously the beer colour, you would not believe the difference from the keg to the bottle.

Anyone have any ideas on why this beer could go so brown I would be fascinated to hear them.

Bearing in mind the beer in my picture has spent 6 weeks at 2oC in a keg so the haze has started to drop out of it by now.

But I think this has to be the hardest style I've ever had a go at. And just to clarify I've always had the rule of never cloning beers, or making others recipes. I always go from the ground up. I find it better that way.

But I think I have some solid ideas on where to take this into V2.

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[Leon103]

Hey @leon thanks for the review. Seriously the beer colour, you would not believe the difference from the keg to the bottle.

Anyone have any ideas on why this beer could go so brown I would be fascinated to hear them.

Bearing in mind the beer in my picture has spent 6 weeks at 2oC in a keg so the haze has started to drop out of it by now.

But I think this has to be the hardest style I've ever had a go at. And just to clarify I've always had the rule of never cloning beers, or making others recipes. I always go from the ground up. I find it better that way.

But I think I have some solid ideas on where to take this into V2.

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Wow that looks a totally different beer.

 

[dan125]

Hey @leon thanks for the review. Seriously the beer colour, you would not believe the difference from the keg to the bottle.

Anyone have any ideas on why this beer could go so brown I would be fascinated to hear them.

Bearing in mind the beer in my picture has spent 6 weeks at 2oC in a keg so the haze has started to drop out of it by now.

But I think this has to be the hardest style I've ever had a go at. And just to clarify I've always had the rule of never cloning beers, or making others recipes. I always go from the ground up. I find it better that way.

But I think I have some solid ideas on where to take this into V2.

Someone mentioned this darkening that happened with bottled Vermont beers on a youtube smashoff beer review (2 mins in):

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sYs5TmVVKU[/ame]

Seems like you're not on your own

 

[mr_bridger]

Totally agree with this. I find it peaks at about 4th gen. And you almost need to adjust your recipe to accommodate the character is can produce.


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Well, harvesting the yeast fell on its arse, I bought another fermenter to transfer it, but with the weather at the time and some other unforseen circumstances, I just ended up dry hopping straight in the FV.

On bottling day, to my surprise, the entirety of the dry hops were sat on the top of the beer like a big thick green carpet. In the end, mission aborted, emptied the beer fridge and shoved the FV in there. 2 days later it had all dropped out, so kegged 9L and bottled the rest.

Force carbed keg, day or so later poured first glass. Amazing colour, taste and mouthfeel! Well impressed. I've not tried a bottle yet, I wonder if it has changed colour. Will see this weekend, but here's a pic of beer from the keg. 👌

 

[BeerCat]

Well, harvesting the yeast fell on its arse, I bought another fermenter to transfer it, but with the weather at the time and some other unforseen circumstances, I just ended up dry hopping straight in the FV.

On bottling day, to my surprise, the entirety of the dry hops were sat on the top of the beer like a big thick green carpet. In the end, mission aborted, emptied the beer fridge and shoved the FV in there. 2 days later it had all dropped out, so kegged 9L and bottled the rest.

Force carbed keg, day or so later poured first glass. Amazing colour, taste and mouthfeel! Well impressed. I've not tried a bottle yet, I wonder if it has changed colour. Will see this weekend, but here's a pic of beer from the keg. 👌

That looks really nice, mine was darker and somewhat of a failure. Not a bad beer but more of an IPA.

 

[mr_bridger]

I forgot to post this before, but this is the same batch of NEIPA. Left is Keg, right is bottled. (Bottles Co2 flushed too) bottle conditioning defo make it darker / browner. Taste changed a little too. Definitely not as 'fresh' tasting.

 

[blawford]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I was hoping for a bit of advice and this seemed like the most logical place to ask it rather than starting a new thread.

I brewed a version of this recipe and it turned out nicely, not perfect, but pretty good. I am getting married in a month's time and I am looking to brew mark II and make a couple of improvements.

First time round the recipe I went with was this https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/504842/tropical-storm-arlene-neipa

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.063
Final Gravity: 1.016
ABV (standard): 6.13%
IBU (tinseth): 30.52
SRM (morey): 6.24

FERMENTABLES:
5 kg - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (74.6%)
1 kg - Flaked Oats (14.9%)
0.5 kg - United Kingdom - Wheat (7.5%)
0.2 kg - German - Carapils (3%)

HOPS:
15 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 2.78
15 g - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 2.85
15 g - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 12.06, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 3.59

15 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 100 °C, IBU: 5.54
15 g - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.7, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 100 °C, IBU: 5.67
15 g - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.06, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 100 °C, IBU: 7.87
15 g - Ahtanum, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 3.4, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 100 °C, IBU: 2.22

30 g - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 12.06, Use: Dry Hop for 2 days
30 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Dry Hop for 2 days
30 g - Motueka, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 7.4, Use: Dry Hop for 2 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 67 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 17 L
Starting Mash Thickness: 2.5 L/kg

YEAST:
Wyeast - London Ale III 1318
Fermentation Temp: 18 C

The changes I am looking to make are to cut the bitterness and lower the ABV slightly (as I think a 6+% ABV might scare some people away).

This is my new proposed recipe - https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/532441/wedding-neipa

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.060
Final Gravity: 1.016
ABV (standard): 5.82%
IBU (tinseth): 21.3
SRM (morey): 6.03

FERMENTABLES:
4.75 kg - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (74.6%)
0.95 kg - Flaked Oats (14.9%)
480 g - United Kingdom - Wheat (7.5%)
190 g - German - Carapils (3%)

HOPS:
15 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 0 min
15 g - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.7, Use: Boil for 0 min
15 g - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 12.06, Use: Boil for 0 min

15 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 80 °C, IBU: 5.54
15 g - Centennial, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.7, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 80 °C, IBU: 5.67
15 g - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.06, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 80 °C, IBU: 7.87
15 g - Ahtanum, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 3.4, Use: Whirlpool for 30 min at 80 °C, IBU: 2.22

30 g - Nelson Sauvin, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 12.06, Use: Dry Hop for 2 days
30 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Dry Hop for 2 days
30 g - Motueka, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 7.4, Use: Dry Hop for 2 days

@strange-steve any chance you can give this a look over and share any experience you have had since that might help me? I have seen you have had a couple more attempts at this style.

 

[strange-steve]

The first thing that comes to mind is that you don't have enough hops, I used 250g of hops in my last attempt and it was seriously lacking in hop flavour and aroma. Next time I'll be upping that to about 350-400g, all late hops, but it gets rather pricey, hops aint cheap. But otherwise I think your hop combo and grain bill looks good. Another thing I'll be trying next is mashing higher to increase the FG, hopefully to add a little more body/sweetness.

 

[blawford]

The first thing that comes to mind is that you don't have enough hops, I used 250g of hops in my last attempt and it was seriously lacking in hop flavour and aroma. Next time I'll be upping that to about 350-400g, all late hops, but it gets rather pricey, hops aint cheap. But otherwise I think your hop combo and grain bill looks good. Another thing I'll be trying next is mashing higher to increase the FG, hopefully to add a little more body/sweetness.

Interesting, I thought the hope flavour/aroma was alright in the last recipe but I have to admit that I have never tried a commercial example of the style. I probably also have lower expectations than you!

I will up the hops, I have 100g of each of the varieties mentioned in the recipe that I bought specifically for this, where would you recommend I use them? I guess the only thing I am worried about is that using them for anything other than dry hopping will creep me back towards the higher IBU's I had in the first attempt?

 

[strange-steve]

Interesting, I thought the hope flavour/aroma was alright in the last recipe but I have to admit that I have never tried a commercial example of the style. I probably also have lower expectations than you!

I will up the hops, I have 100g of each of the varieties mentioned in the recipe that I bought specifically for this, where would you recommend I use them? I guess the only thing I am worried about is that using them for anything other than dry hopping will creep me back towards the higher IBU's I had in the first attempt?

Yeah it's a fine balance, and something I haven't quite got right either. My last one I was happy with the bitterness level but not the flavour, that's why I'm going to try a slightly higher FG to counter the bitterness then up the hopping. But at the end of the day it's your beer, so if you were happy with the hop flavours don't let me tell you otherwise, do what is right for you.

Another thing to consider is water treatment, are you making any adjustments? Calcium chloride definitely softens the flavours which helps with over-bitterness.

 

[blawford]

Yeah it's a fine balance, and something I haven't quite got right either. My last one I was happy with the bitterness level but not the flavour, that's why I'm going to try a slightly higher FG to counter the bitterness then up the hopping. But at the end of the day it's your beer, so if you were happy with the hop flavours don't let me tell you otherwise, do what is right for you.

Another thing to consider is water treatment, are you making any adjustments? Calcium chloride definitely softens the flavours which helps with over-bitterness.

Last time I did 0.1g/l of Calcium Chloride based on your recommendation for my water. However didn't know the alkalinity at the time, I do have a testing kit for that now (which I have yet to use) so I could get that value if you thought it would be useful to make additional adjustments.

 

[strange-steve]

Last time I did 0.1g/l of Calcium Chloride based on your recommendation for my water. However didn't know the alkalinity at the time, I do have a testing kit for that now (which I have yet to use) so I could get that value if you thought it would be useful to make additional adjustments.

Yeah it's worth checking your alkalinity, if it's high it can dull the flavours in the beer.

 

[blawford]

Yeah it's worth checking your alkalinity, if it's high it can dull the flavours in the beer.

Cool, will do. I saw you went pretty high on the Calcium Chloride on your last NEIPA attempt, was that based on your water or something I should consider?

 

[strange-steve]

Yeah I use 90% RO water so there's damn all in it to begin with. Looking at your water content though, you probably could go a bit higher on the CaCl2 too. The thing is with water treatment though, it often comes down to personal taste. For example I'm quite sensitive to sulphate dryness, I find it a little unpleasant, whereas other people love it. The only way to know what you prefer is to try the various options.

 

[Hoddy]

I've found the NEIPA style a seriously tough style to nail.

It has so many facets that can unbalance it. More so than anything else I've tried to brew before.

But when you nail one, oh boy is it a winner [emoji1303]


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[strange-steve]

I've found the NEIPA style a seriously tough style to nail.

It has so many facets that can unbalance it. More so than anything else I've tried to brew before.

But when you nail one, oh boy is it a winner [emoji1303]


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Agreed, it's a tough one all right. Sounds deceptively simple though, as much fruity late and dry hops as your wallet can handle, biotransformation yeast, oats, and job done. If only it were that easy.