Ace electric boilers?

[Covrich]

I really like it covrich. It has the ball tap and the filter and it is insulated. Really pleased. You will struggle though to get in 26 litre and not boil over. I only used mine once so far but I boiled a little on the short side snd added water. I had plenty of room that way.

Thats good

I assume from the ebay that you do have a 1 year warranty, I found the information a touch ambiguous from the ebay ad.

And it isn't absolutley critical what sort of volume do you think you can arrive at using this?

 

[Cwrw666]

Wow. It only takes 6-8hrs for you to get down to pitching temp? I take it this is because your brewing outside? It takes at least 12hrs, usually nearer to 24 for me to get down to pitching temp in with my FV in the kitchen.

Just out of interest do you chuck everything into the FV or do you strain anything out?

No, that's with the FV brought into the house. I guess that's because we don't live in a modern house and no central heating. Even at the moment when it's boiling outside it's still too cool in here to brew at room temperature. So I still have to use the airing cupboard to brew in and in fact during the summer I have more trouble keeping the FV at fermentation temperature than in winter when the woodburner is keeping the water tank hot.
The ace boiler has a mesh strainer on the tap which works pretty well although as you drain the boiler it tends to block up near the bottom and scraping it clear lets some of the trub into the wort.

 

[Cwrw666]

Yes 30L is a bit tight for a 23L brew. I do mine with less water so it doesn't overflow with the grain, then do a sparge to top it up still to 23 L, then during the boil add occasional kettlefuls of boiling water to keep the level up. Then after transferring to the FV I top up again if it needs it. Seems to work ok.

 

[Tony1951]

Thats good

I assume from the ebay that you do have a 1 year warranty, I found the information a touch ambiguous from the ebay ad.

And it isn't absolutley critical what sort of volume do you think you can arrive at using this?

ACE (Affordable Catering Equipment) is a business seller based in the UK and you are therefore protected by the usual UK law in relation to faulty goods and business practices. This gives you the usual expectations as a UK buyer from a UK business.

Ebay publish your rights here: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/safetycentre/rights.html#change

The key legislation is your rights under the Sale of Goods Act which mean you can expect that goods sold to you are fit for purpose and of merchantable quality and you can enforce these rights in the Small Claims Court if need be where goods become defective and unfit for use in a reasonable time.


I easily arrived at a 23 litre brew, but because I was concerned about it boiling over (the boil is strong and with the lid on liquid began to rise up when I filled it to the max) I under liquored the first brew at boil up time, and topped up after the boil with about 3 litres. I am sure I will get the feel for it with a few boils under my belt. The tank holds 30 litres I think, but a 2.6kw element roaring away in a sugary wort will make it froth up a bit. I just didn't want my shiny new boiler all messed up with sticky spillage. I was probably too cautious.

My strainer didn't block up, but the flow from the tap did decline as the filter began to clog. I just left it and all the wort drained out leaving a pile of nasty looking trub and hop pellet debris completely covering the filter. I got nice clean wort out, better than I ever got in my stockpot transfers. The insulated boiler version that they are selling now will take an age to cool down. Even at 23 hours, my wort had to be finally cooled in the bath in the FV. I won't be so nervous about letting it cool naturally next time though. No cool is a pretty well developed process now, and I will just clingfilm the top and leave it as long as it needs to cool, then drain into FV and pitch. Allowance will need to be made for not over-cooking late hop additions though. MyQul has given me good ideas about that in another thread.

 

[Covrich]

THanks I think I am going to probably give on a go, I think for the extra £50 it will cost me over a peco you get a strainer and a good tap and its well insulated ect, looks a good piece of kit. If I end up with 21 or 22L instead of 23, so be it.

I do think ill invest in a copper immersion cooler though

 

[Tony1951]

I do think ill invest in a copper immersion cooler though

You might well be right. I am wondering a bit about getting DMS through leaving the wort hot ->

The SMM to DMS conversion continues at temperatures well below boiling, so DMS is produced even while the wort is cooling after the boil. However, unlike the mash, DMS produced while cooling cannot be boiled off. This conversion continues even if the hot wort is vented. For every hour you have hot wort sitting around, you will produce approximately a 30% increase in DMS.

Source: http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/04/10/dimethyl-sulfides-dms-in-home-brewed-beer/

I read somewhere that a longer boil will evaporate not only the DMS, but also the pre-cursors which can continue to produce it during slow cooling.

 

[MyQul]

You might well be right. I am wondering a bit about getting DMS through leaving the wort hot ->



Source: http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/04/10/dimethyl-sulfides-dms-in-home-brewed-beer/

I read somewhere that a longer boil will evaporate not only the DMS, but also the pre-cursors which can continue to produce it during slow cooling.

I'm pretty much convinced, at a homebrew level anyway, that getting DMS is pretty much a myth/bloody hard for it to happen.

I no-chill in the FV and one of the 'cons' of no chill is supposed to be DMS. I've read a fair bit about no chill, including anecdotal stuff across the forums and I haven't read about one person saying that they had DMS in their beer due to no chil. I'm not saying it wont happen but I think it's unlikely as one opinion I've read is that nowadays we have better (modulated? Think that might be the right term ) malted grain.

 

[Tony1951]

I'm pretty much convinced, at a homebrew level anyway, that getting DMS is pretty much a myth/bloody hard for it to happen.

I no-chill in the FV and one of the 'cons' of no chill is supposed to be DMS. I've read a fair bit about no chill, including anecdotal stuff across the forums and I haven't read about one person saying that they had DMS in their beer due to no chil. I'm not saying it wont happen but I think it's unlikely as one opinion I've read is that nowadays we have better (modulated? Think that might be the right term ) malted grain.

That's interesting. In any case, it is supposed to be much less likely to be a problem if the beers are at all dark and I'm not talking stout dark there - just any sort of amber or darker.

I'm itching to get my boiler out again, but I will be away between Monday and Thursday night so I will have to wait. I don't want to leave a fermentation unattended at its busiest phase. I fancy the Summer Ale recipe out of the Greg Hughes book. I might mess about with the hops though. I have Goldings, but not EKG, and I've not heard much about Progress. The recipe calls for:

20g EKG 60mins
15g Progress 60mins
15g EKG 30 mins
10g Progress
15g EKG 1 minute

 

[ManseMasher]

http://www.brupaks.com/BRUPAKS HOP GUIDE 2005.htm

Goldings will be fine. Progress was initially seen as a replacement for fuggles.

 

[Tony1951]

http://www.brupaks.com/BRUPAKS HOP GUIDE 2005.htm

Goldings will be fine. Progress was initially seen as a replacement for fuggles.

Ah - I already have fuggles. My sons bought me a bunch of random hops for my birthday. Job done. I'll use them for the Summer Ale with the Goldings.

Thanks.

 

[Covrich]

Okay, I think I am going to bite the bullet

What worries me is if something goes wrong with it, could you get spares?? but I guess its still an element and such.. I may not be the greatest sparky but my Dads a dab hand so between us we could both work it out..

I dont see any reason why it would though if course.

its a big descision!! :rofl:

 

[Covrich]

Just another question..

How do you guys go about getting your volumes correct with a 30l? do you mash in say 20 liters then run a sparge with about 12? and then add to the boiler?

(i know its not a true BIAB as they say but as long as it works)

 

[Tony1951]

Just another question..

How do you guys go about getting your volumes correct with a 30l? do you mash in say 20 liters then run a sparge with about 12? and then add to the boiler?

(i know its not a true BIAB as they say but as long as it works)

On a short holiday at the moment - just checking in with a quick response.

I am still experimenting with this issue. I was pretty conservative in how much I boiled and I just added back boiled water after the boil to the desired volume. I know there are problems with doing that in terms of hop utilisation, but that is what I did. I don't know how things will turn out yet.

 

[Covrich]

On a short holiday at the moment - just checking in with a quick response.

I am still experimenting with this issue. I was pretty conservative in how much I boiled and I just added back boiled water after the boil to the desired volume. I know there are problems with doing that in terms of hop utilisation, but that is what I did. I don't know how things will turn out yet.

I am thinking along the lines of mash with say 20 liters of water. then if you warm up 12 liters in another pan (which I have) to 80c and sparge with that adding that too your boil.. you could end up with 26-27liters of pre boil volume.. that will reduce to 22-23 once boiled and cooled quickly.

 

[Toffee]

I have a 30L boiler. I mash into 25L and then dunk sparge with 7 L in a pan with water at 80c. I put around 4L of this back into the start of the boil. Then add the other 3L as I can during first 40 mins of the boil. Gets me to around 22L give or take a L.

 

[Toffee]

That said my 30L boiler actually seems to hold 33L to the brim based on measurements. But yeah, fill it up as much as you can for the mash. Sparge what you need to bring up volumes

 

[Tony1951]

My ACE boiler has a pretty vigorous boil and I knew this from testing with plain water. I made the decision to be conservative in boiling actual wort because as you know it tends to froth up and rise up inside the boiler - possibly overflowing. I boiled about 22 litres and when I attempted to put on the lid during the early part of the boil before the protein break, the froth rose up threatening to come over the top. I was lifting the lid about every half minute at the start to just see what was happening. I took the lid right off and it then never came near coming over the top, even though it was boiling strongly. I know I can get more in, and next time I'll maybe boil 25 litres - BUT keep the lid off and keep a water spray on hand to prevent a boil over. Spraying a cold mist onto a rising boil over stops it in its tracks.

Will be kegging my last ACE brew probably tomorrow and making a 'Summer Ale' from my Gregg Hughes Home Brew Beer' book at the weekend. SWIMBO is going away one of the days to York with friends so I can revert to type and make a mess.

 

[Covrich]

My ACE boiler has a pretty vigorous boil and I knew this from testing with plain water. I made the decision to be conservative in boiling actual wort because as you know it tends to froth up and rise up inside the boiler - possibly overflowing. I boiled about 22 litres and when I attempted to put on the lid during the early part of the boil before the protein break, the froth rose up threatening to come over the top. I was lifting the lid about every half minute at the start to just see what was happening. I took the lid right off and it then never came near coming over the top, even though it was boiling strongly. I know I can get more in, and next time I'll maybe boil 25 litres - BUT keep the lid off and keep a water spray on hand to prevent a boil over. Spraying a cold mist onto a rising boil over stops it in its tracks.

Will be kegging my last ACE brew probably tomorrow and making a 'Summer Ale' from my Gregg Hughes Home Brew Beer' book at the weekend. SWIMBO is going away one of the days to York with friends so I can revert to type and make a mess.

It's probably a trial and error thing with the pots on my hob I was always able to push to like 1cm from the top of the pot and it didn't boil over.

I wouldn't do that in this but possibly like toffee does sparge up to the max and boil it down.. If you could get 27 liters in pre boil I think the boil and cooldown could get down to 22-23ish.. perhaps you could turn teh boiler down a touch so its not over vigorous?

Mine is due to arrive today while I am at work and wife is at home so I hope she don't freak at the size..

 

[Tony1951]

Mine is due to arrive today while I am at work and wife is at home so I hope she don't freak at the size..

It's quite neat and smart looking, so there's a good chance she'll be OK with it. Mine even tolerates it standing on the kitchen bench for 24 hours while cooling down, and me looking doe-eyed at it like it was the new kitchen house god - it is in its big shiny godliness .... :)

I hope you like it.

On turning it down. If you do that what you get is a series of on off bursts as the thermostat switches on and off. I'm no expert at this AG thing, but I think the boil ought to be constant to make it work properly. Some people have modified Burko and possibly the other boiler commonly used for brewing by putting some kind of boil controller in-line with the element. This would work by just restricting the current that can flow through the element, effectively turning it down.This is a world apart from switching it on for ten seconds and off for thirty which the thermostat is likely to do if I turn down the temperature control. Frankly - even if I do have to add back boiled water after the boil, I think it would be better than having an intermittent boil.

Give it a good clean out and get a brew on Covrich... Hope it all goes well. :)

EDIT: Just had a thought. If you are unhappy about the possible effects on hop balance of adding water after the boil, why not just scale back recipes and try a 23 litre boil for the first one. It's just a ratio thing isn't it so it doesn't need an Einstein to work it out. That way, you get exactly the recipe you want; it fits in the boiler for sure without boiling over and you just get a little bit less beer out at the end. The boiler has a max fill recommendation of 25litres and has a full mark on the inside.

 

[Covrich]

Thanks Ill need to perhaps store mine in the garage when not in use, even in say the conservatory I dont want a 6 and 4 year old playing with it.

Topping up a liter or so wouldn't afftect the hops too much, a lot of people do the maxi BIAB quite effectively and you're talking about just a few % of hops if you wanted to upscale to suit.

That said I wouldn't mind if I just did a normal brew and it came out at 21liters.. it is what it is.. and the less I yield the more I have to brew..

I ordered a wort chiller with 4 metre hoses on so when I brew in conservatory I can hang them out the window to the garden hose tap

Of course now I have that and (waiting for the chiller)... I need to grains and hops, might try a Greg Hughes recipe myself.. perhaps a Saison