A question

[MarkMayf]

Sorry, couldn't think of a better thread title.

While watching the not particularly popular Hairy Bikers pub series, something caught my eye.

They were in Robinsons brewery, and the manager/owner took Si into the fermenting room.

The fermenter was a big open topped thing, and I thought, 'how do they keep that from infection?'

Then, they threw in a sample thief, hauled it back it to pour out a couple of samples for tasting, then threw it back in.

The manager/owner had a taste, then poured the rest back in the fermenter.

So, back to question one. How do they stop infection?

 

[geetee]

Beer is fairly resistant and us homebrewers go a bit over the top sometimes. Open top square fermenters are common and the yeat head will protect to an extent.
I have been in Microbreweries where the brewer dips his finger in the whirlpool to get a sample on the end for the refractometer several times, no disinfection or washing of hands and the beer was OK.
As I posted elsewhere I am always lifting the lid of the fermenter and poking a glass in for trial samples and haven't lost a brew in 9 years to infection.

 

[Leon103]

Open fermenters are common. The brewery would be kept pretty sterile and clean.

 

[MyQul]

Open fermenters are common. The brewery would be kept pretty sterile and clean.

I think this is the key to it.

I've had a couple of wild yeast infections. I put this down to the fact I brew in my kitchen and there's always an overflowing fruit bowl in the kitchen too

 

[Sonnal]

If we could see CO2 I don't think we'd be so worried about open fermentation. It provides a blanket over the beer. The only problem comes from physical contaminants that could carry microbes, penetrating the Co2. As long as you brew your beer in a clean environment and minimise the risk of physical contaminants such as insects, your beer should be fine. As a microbiologist by degree, I see how we as homebrewers can be over sensitive to microbial contamination, but I still put a lid on my FV just to be sure! We have a lot less control as to access to our brewing areas (kids etc) and their state of personal hygiene (kids again) so there is good reason to do what we do.

 

[lukehgriffiths]

I think a lot of it comes down to when in the process you mess with it. The moments post boil after cooling is when the wort is a prime substance for yeast it is also a perfect breeding ground for bacteria. Once your yeast is established it is difficult for bacteria or other yeast to take hold.

Some things are still a potential problem like bacteria in the barrel that cause an off flavour hence the need to keep that clean too.

Plus it is TV... things could have happened between that you don't see.

 

[Covrich]

I think a lot of it comes down to when in the process you mess with it. The moments post boil after cooling is when the wort is a prime substance for yeast it is also a perfect breeding ground for bacteria. Once your yeast is established it is difficult for bacteria or other yeast to take hold.

Some things are still a potential problem like bacteria in the barrel that cause an off flavour hence the need to keep that clean too.

Plus it is TV... things could have happened between that you don't see.

I totally agree, once your beer is fermenting and fermented it is much harder to get contaminated...

It is why I am often mentioning good aeration and I think in general getting a starter for liquid yeasts, give a good healthy fermantation with little lag time..:thumb:

 

[MarkMayf]

Interesting, thank you.

So, my serial peeking under the lid is not so much of an issue!

 

[MickDundee]

Open fermenters are common. The brewery would be kept pretty sterile and clean.

This

Before I started home brewing there was a series on Channel 5 about Marston Breweries and they had a lot of big open fermenting vats.

 

[Halfacrem]

I think when brewing such large quantities, the amount of CO2 produced is so significant it provides a very efficient protection. In fact the people who clean out the open fermentation tanks have to be careful they don't succumb to CO2 poisoning.

I was surprised that the fermentation vats at the Ringwood brewery are about hip height and the Tour takes you right up to them. I wouldn't be surprised if all sorts (spiders, flies, other stuff) fall into the Krausen and are pretty quickly killed off or cleaned out during the process (I hope).

 

[Bigcol49]

Hi!
There's always forward movement in home brewing. Some long-held axioms are being challenged almost daily.
The importance of cooling your boiled wort is stressed, yet many use "no-chill" methods, some even simply put a lid on the boiler when the boil is finished and leave it overnight. Recipes meticulously list hop additions for flavour and aroma, yet it seems that most of the essential oils are boiled away.
Hop filters are discussed in depth online, yet some dump everything into the FV (and claim that they produce a better beer).
We have been told not to lift the FV lid during fermentation, yet there are some who don't cover their FV during fermentation.
Are we getting a little too "precious" about everything?

 

[Lesinge]

Batemans use open fermenters and you can peer over to see the beer when you are in thir fermenting room..as has been said, you can get a very light head in there!

 

[dan125]

The manager/owner had a taste, then poured the rest back in the fermenter.

I was a bit surprised by this too and commented to 'er indoors that it didn't look very sanitary.
That would be a lot of beer/money to pour down the drain if it did get infected, so he must've been pretty confident it would be ok.

As a bit of an aside - I'm sure they said the finished, crystal clear pint, was only 6 days old! How do they do that?

 

[MyQul]

Batemans use open fermenters and you can peer over to see the beer when you are in thir fermenting room..as has been said, you can get a very light head in there!

When I swap out my ice bottles for my cool brewing fermentation bag it often take my breath away as the brew bag has obviously filled up with C02 from the fermentation

 

[lukehgriffiths]

More beer leads to faster conditioning.
Add copper finings and isinglass to the mix and things get clear pretty fast.

They have crash coolers on their FV usually too.

Everything adds up.

 

[geetee]

I was a bit surprised by this too and commented to 'er indoors that it didn't look very sanitary.
That would be a lot of beer/money to pour down the drain if it did get infected, so he must've been pretty confident it would be ok.

As a bit of an aside - I'm sure they said the finished, crystal clear pint, was only 6 days old! How do they do that?

I can usually get beer clear and bottled within about 10 days, not saying that it is optimum condition but by using kettle finings, auxillary finings and crash cooling will turn the beer out really quickly. Most larger breweries have much better control of temperature and fermentation than we have so 6- 7 days is acheivable.
You can also do this by using loads of chemical stabilisers especially if it's for a canned beer, supermarket deadlines have to be met and chemicals make this possible!

 

[Steved53]

As a bit of an aside - I'm sure they said the finished, crystal clear pint, was only 6 days old! How do they do that?

I think this has also got a lot to do with it. They have the process off to a fine art. To have a finished crystal clear pint in 6 days, the fermentation process has to start and proceed very quickly. The breweries probably get it out the door and drunk before any minor infections would even be noticed.