0 minute hop addition, how long?

[Brewelder]

I was meant to be having a brew day today with a Neck Oil Clone from KegThat, but other things got in the way so postponed till next weekend now.

Anyway, to my question. The recipe calls for a 0 minute hop addition of 100gms of Nelson Sauvin, how long do i leave the hops in before decanting the wort to the FV?

 

[Agentgonzo]

Surely you leave them in for 0 minutes

Chuck them in when you turn the heat off. Leave them in whilst you chill as normal, then rack the wort off into the fermenter as normal. Depending on how quickly you chill, this could be anywhere from about 15 minutes to an hour or two.

 

[Buffers brewery]

When I do flame out hop additions I add the hops and cool to 80C then stop cooling for 20 minutes or so before continuing cooling to pitch temperature. When I bagged (leaf) hops I retrieved the bag and gave it a squeeze after the 20 minute cooling pause. When I use pellets just leave them.

 

[Brewelder]

When I do flame out hop additions I add the hops and cool to 80C then stop cooling for 20 minutes or so before continuing cooling to pitch temperature. When I bagged (leaf) hops I retrieved the bag and gave it a squeeze after the 20 minute cooling pause. When I use pellets just leave them.

They are pellet hops and i normally use a hop sock, so you’re suggesting chuck em in loose and leave in?

 

[Buffers brewery]

They are pellet hops and i normally use a hop sock, so you’re suggesting chuck em in loose and leave in?

That's what I do. Half a protofloc tablet @ 15 minutes to go, add pellets and cool as I said then leave for an hour to settle out before I transfer. Always get a bit of trub carried over but doesn't seem to have any I'll effects. Others may/do do it differently

 

[hoppyscotty]

There is a difference between flame out and hopstand additions. Flame out you do just that, drop in the hops at flame out (or element off) then proceed to chill. Depending on. how long it takes for you to chill your wort will depend on how many IBU's you pull. I've always assumed with flame out additions you're not really pulling much flavour or aroma as generally you need some time to step the hops, but if it takes you a good 30 to 40 mins to chill your wort then as the wort slowly cools you will also be pulling some flavour and aroma.

For hopstand it is to steep the hops at a lower temp, typically 80 degrees or less, and steep for 15 mins or more. here in principle you're aiming to pull more flavour and aroma and less bitterness - it takes time to pull out flavour and aroma

I would interpret your recipe instructions as calling for flame out additions....but the beauty of this hobby is you can amend the process to suit your own preference so if you want more hop aroma and flavour the do a hop stand, or if you want to remain truer to the recipe then stick to the instructions.

 

[Brewelder]

There is a difference between flame out and hopstand additions. Flame out you do just that, drop in the hops at flame out (or element off) then proceed to chill. Depending on. how long it takes for you to chill your wort will depend on how many IBU's you pull. I've always assumed with flame out additions you're not really pulling much flavour or aroma as generally you need some time to step the hops, but if it takes you a good 30 to 40 mins to chill your wort then as the wort slowly cools you will also be pulling some flavour and aroma.

For hopstand it is to steep the hops at a lower temp, typically 80 degrees or less, and steep for 15 mins or more. here in principle you're aiming to pull more flavour and aroma and less bitterness - it takes time to pull out flavour and aroma

I would interpret your recipe instructions as calling for flame out additions....but the beauty of this hobby is you can amend the process to suit your own preference so if you want more hop aroma and flavour the do a hop stand, or if you want to remain truer to the recipe then stick to the instructions.

Thanks for that. I do like a nice hoppy flavour in my beers so may adapt the recipe and go for a hop stand as opposed to a flame out addition which the recipe does call for.

I’ve never actually timed the cool down period but at a guess I’d say 20 - 30 minutes, however i can slow this down to get more flavour i guess.

 

[The Baron]

I go with the same as Hoppyscotty as re Flameout you chill as soon as you add the hops at flameout. Now do bear in mind as he has said the IBU's will be added the more with a longer time and Nelson hops are @ 11.5% AA so with a long chill you could add quite a few IBU's.
The alternative if you are worried about the IBU's is to whirlpool @ 80c and leave to stand for say 20 minute-ish
Ps you must have been typing at the same time as me

 

[Brewelder]

I go with the same as Hoppyscotty as re Flameout you chill as soon as you add the hops at flameout. Now do bear in mind as he has said the IBU's will be added the more with a longer time and Nelson hops are @ 11.5% AA so with a long chill you could add quite a few IBU's.
The alternative if you are worried about the IBU's is to whirlpool @ 80c and leave to stand for say 20 minute-ish
Ps you must have been typing at the same time as me

The recipe actually claims 24.4 for IBU’s but i guess that’s the style of IPA that it is. I love the original Neck Oil and i wouldn’t say that it’s overly bitter to my pallet.

Alsop the flame out addition is followed by a dry hop of 50gms of cascade on day 3.

 

[hoppyscotty]

I would assume that the proper Neck Oil will be made in a huge kettle and the wort will pass through a huge plate chiller in a single pass on its way tot he fermenter, so the wort will sit in the kettle at near boiling for a good 30 4o 40mins or however long it takes to pump the full volume of the wort through the plate chiller so during that time it will be pulling IBU's.

In the homebrew setup we're probably using an immersion chiller so cooling the full volume of wort so will pull less IBU's over that time.

Depends in the recipe has been adjusted for homebrew or not.

 

[Brewelder]

I would assume that the proper Neck Oil will be made in a huge kettle and the wort will pass through a huge plate chiller in a single pass on its way tot he fermenter, so the wort will sit in the kettle at near boiling for a good 30 4o 40mins or however long it takes to pump the full volume of the wort through the plate chiller so during that time it will be pulling IBU's.

In the homebrew setup we're probably using an immersion chiller so cooling the full volume of wort so will pull less IBU's over that time.

Depends in the recipe has been adjusted for homebrew or not.

The Neck Oil Clone Recipe​

Batch Size	Losses	Boil Time	Mash Efficiency	Mash Volume	Sparge Volume
21 L	2 L	60 mins	80%	14.30 L	14.90 L
OG (SG) 1.044	FG (SG) 1.011	IBU 60.5	Colour (EBC) 17.4	ABV 4.29%

Mash and Sparge volumes calculated using the “Grainfather G30 Connect – 220V (Bluetooth)” profile.

Fermentables Amount	Usage	PPG	EBC
Maris Otter 3.50 kg (88%)	Mash	38.0	7.9
Crystal 240 – 94L 0.25 kg (6%)	Mash	35.0	250.2
Carapils 0.25 kg (6%)	Mash	33.6	5.0
Supplier: Weyermann Mash Steps	Temp	Time
Mash In	68 °C	60 min
Mash Out	75 °C	10 min
Hops	Amount	Type	Usage	Time	AA
Cascade (IBU: 3.0)	5.00 g (3%)	Pellet	Boil	30 min	5.8
Amarillo (IBU: 14.7)	16.00 g (11%)	Pellet	Boil	30 min	9
Columbus (CTZ) (IBU: 3.1)	2.00 g (1%)	Pellet	Boil	30 min	15
Centennial (IBU: 15.4)	19.00 g (13%)	Pellet	Boil	15 min	10.5

Hops	Amount	Type	Usage	Time	AA
Nelson Sauvin (IBU: 24.4)	100.00 g (70%)	Pellet	Boil	0 min	12
Cascade (IBU: 0.0)	1.00 g (1%)	Pellet	Dry Hop	3 days	5.8

 

[Buffers brewery]

Sounds like you've got a couple of options @Brewelder , which is always a good thing. Try doing the recipe as @hoppyscotty suggests and if the result needs a bit more hoppyness, (which I doubt it will with that quantity of flame out hops), brew it again with a combined flame out and hop stand, and see if that works. It's a good excuse to do more brewing

 

[The Baron]

I am right in you saying you are not over keen on a lot of bitterness as the recipe has omitted the 50g of Cascade in the dry hop which will add upto 10 more IBU's at a guess.
If so I would whirlpool/hopstand @80c to mitigate the possible high IBU.s if so

 

[Buffers brewery]

We established on another thread that 1g dry hop was a typo and should be 50g

 

[Brewelder]

I am right in you saying you are not over keen on a lot of bitterness as the recipe has omitted the 50g of Cascade in the dry hop which will add upto 10 more IBU's at a guess.
If so I would whirlpool/hopstand @80c to mitigate the possible high IBU.s if so

Not at all mate, that’s a typo in the online recipe, there’s actually 50gms of cascade at day 3 for dry hop.

 

[The Baron]

Not at all mate, that’s a typo in the online recipe, there’s actually 50gms of cascade at day 3 for dry hop.

I had realised that what I am pointing out that the recipe does not show 50g of cascade so does not give the possible IBU's that a 50g dry hop gives therefore your 60 IBU recipe is actually higher

 

[Brewelder]

Thanks for all the advice guys, now looking forward to next weekend so i can get the brew on.