Electric cars.

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Are these hybrids "Self charging" or plug in the plug in hybrids have a much bigger battery.

As i said i am a member of two of the biggest Hybrid forums and not one thread or post has been about a members or anyone else's "Self charging" car catching fire
As I said, I'm on a number of EV forums and Facebook groups. Never heard of anyone's catching fire either.

I think it's a mixture of the two. It makes no odds really - they both contain LiPo batteries which are the volatile type.

Ironically, Tesla (and a couple of others I can't remember) don't use LiPo. They use LiFePo4 batteries.
The chances of one of those catching fire are next to zero.

I wouldn't worry about your car catching fire any more than I worry about my EV.
Frankly, I worry more about having a performance car that's heavily modified to use a lot of fuel. A mate of mine had his house burn down. He had a genuine 1960s AC Cobra that had an electrical fault.
 
Just happened to come across this - ultra-fast (>=100kW) chargers have increased 7x in three years across Europe (inc UK), and since 2022 have gone from 5% to 15% of the total.
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Meanwhile the US now has one charging station for every 13 petrol stations, with the former expected to outnumber the latter within 8 years :

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ave-more-public-ev-chargers-than-gas-stations

It was always going to take time to refactor the way cars get refueled, but no doubt if we'd had social media in the 1980s the cry would have been that you can't find unleaded petrol anywhere and it will never catch on, so we should stick with leaded petrol. Chargers are happening.
 
Im surprised that the more progressive energy companies (eg octopus) don't run a charge on my drive scheme yet, were others can borrow your charging point when not in use.
Cant think of anything more horrific....having complete strangers turning up on my drive to use my charger, knocking on my door with their kids that need the toilet, and other not so pleasant people peeing up the side of my house, pulling in more traffic into my nice quiet cut-de-sac, and living near a couple of large A roads would probably pull in alot of passing traffic with the risk of having people queueing up outside my house and me apologising to my neighbours. What a horrific idea.

Generally other people are badly behaved and not particularly pleasant. I've seen enough shenanigans when using proper charge points out and about...people dumping their litter on the ground, letting their dogs out to foul the surrounding area, general hanging around smoking and vaping and a whole host of other unpleasant behaviour. At least in petrol stations it only takes a few minutes to fill up, pay and sod off so people tend to stay in the car rather than get out and start being a PITA.

As for EV's catching fire...yes they do. not particularly common, but they do and have. Mine has never spontaneously combusted and I don't know of anyone's who has, but they do. And more recently in Australia a massive battery farm caught fire, like the ones were ivensting billions of pounds in building in the UK. The problem when EV's catch fire is putting the fire out...there has been at least 3 large car ferries full of brand new cars being delivered somewhere go up because of an EV spontaneously combusting, only one of which hit the mainstream media, and the only option they had was to anchor the vessel off the coast and let it burn out. Yes ICE cars do catch fire but most of the fires are latest generation diesels that have been festooned with so much complicated technology to bring their emissions down and it is that technology that usually is the root cause of the fire...usually the Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve gumming up with soot and combusting when the engine goes into a routine regen cycle, so actually nothing fundamentally to do with diesel engines, but all the complex expensive tech that is needed to comply with emissions regulations.

Just to highlight that the problem of spontaneously combusting batteries, the Boeing 787 was the first aircraft to use Lithium Ion batteries instead of more conventional batteries and in the first few years of service there were several cases of batteries spontaneously combusting, like small ones too that power smoke alarms, and in some cases resulted in the loss of the entire aircraft. Thank god it never happened in flight (though there has been cases of laptop batteries combusting during flight which is why you cant put them in the hold) and all incidents were on the ground. The entire global fleet was grounded and Boeing had to roll out a fix pretty quick and the cost of millions of dollars and included a redesign of the batteries and charging systems and encasing the batteries in heavy armoured boxes to contain and safely vent the fire - so still cant guarantee they wont combust so had to design the system to contain a battery that does. But this never ever ever happened ever in the history of commercial aviation with the older tech batteries. So there is an issue with Lithium based batteries that has to be considered in the design of the system to contain and prevent thermal runaway...you cant deny that. Not saying there is not a technical or engineering solution available, but until those solutions are all available and rolled out into the entire fleet of cars/ships/aircraft/ground based battery stations etc. then it will always be a risk.
 
Cant think of anything more horrific....having complete strangers turning up on my drive to use my charger, knocking on my door with their kids that need the toilet, and other not so pleasant people peeing up the side of my house, pulling in more traffic into my nice quiet cut-de-sac, and living near a couple of large A roads would probably pull in alot of passing traffic with the risk of having people queueing up outside my house and me apologising to my neighbours. What a horrific idea.

Generally other people are badly behaved and not particularly pleasant. I've seen enough shenanigans when using proper charge points out and about...people dumping their litter on the ground, letting their dogs out to foul the surrounding area, general hanging around smoking and vaping and a whole host of other unpleasant behaviour. At least in petrol stations it only takes a few minutes to fill up, pay and sod off so people tend to stay in the car rather than get out and start being a PITA.

As for EV's catching fire...yes they do. not particularly common, but they do and have. Mine has never spontaneously combusted and I don't know of anyone's who has, but they do. And more recently in Australia a massive battery farm caught fire, like the ones were ivensting billions of pounds in building in the UK. The problem when EV's catch fire is putting the fire out...there has been at least 3 large car ferries full of brand new cars being delivered somewhere go up because of an EV spontaneously combusting, only one of which hit the mainstream media, and the only option they had was to anchor the vessel off the coast and let it burn out. Yes ICE cars do catch fire but most of the fires are latest generation diesels that have been festooned with so much complicated technology to bring their emissions down and it is that technology that usually is the root cause of the fire...usually the Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve gumming up with soot and combusting when the engine goes into a routine regen cycle, so actually nothing fundamentally to do with diesel engines, but all the complex expensive tech that is needed to comply with emissions regulations.

Just to highlight that the problem of spontaneously combusting batteries, the Boeing 787 was the first aircraft to use Lithium Ion batteries instead of more conventional batteries and in the first few years of service there were several cases of batteries spontaneously combusting, like small ones too that power smoke alarms, and in some cases resulted in the loss of the entire aircraft. Thank god it never happened in flight (though there has been cases of laptop batteries combusting during flight which is why you cant put them in the hold) and all incidents were on the ground. The entire global fleet was grounded and Boeing had to roll out a fix pretty quick and the cost of millions of dollars and included a redesign of the batteries and charging systems and encasing the batteries in heavy armoured boxes to contain and safely vent the fire - so still cant guarantee they wont combust so had to design the system to contain a battery that does. But this never ever ever happened ever in the history of commercial aviation with the older tech batteries. So there is an issue with Lithium based batteries that has to be considered in the design of the system to contain and prevent thermal runaway...you cant deny that. Not saying there is not a technical or engineering solution available, but until those solutions are all available and rolled out into the entire fleet of cars/ships/aircraft/ground based battery stations etc. then it will always be a risk.
Some very valid points there indeed, i was somewhat sceptical when I first looked into EVs especially the entry level ones like the Hyundia Kona that I have. The horrors stories of them bursting into flames was concerning until i dug deeper the Konas (can;t speak for other EVs) have full battery management via liquid cooling provided by the AC and heating via the heat pump. The cars that went on fire had a combination issues one the AC was defective and the owner did not rectify it the car had no way cool the battery pack and left in extreme heat for days it became unstable. other examples stated after longer periods of not being used the 12v battery discharged and failed, this resulted in complete loss of the control systems and unable to activate the HV batteries or thermal management system.
I fully accept that EVs do catch fire under certain circumstances and they are not easy to extinguish, but i also think if they are correctly operated and maintained the risk is vastly reduced. For example the failure of the AC in an ICE is inconvenient, in an EV it can be catastrophic.

As for the use of home chargers for other users, not sure that is viable I mean how do you bill them domestic chargers bill the account holder not many have swipe card access like public chargers. Also where am I meant to park and as mine is inside ,my garage how do i secure all my possessions in there? Lots of questions on this one.

one suggestion i do have is that every energy supplier offers reduced rates for off peak EV charging, most home chargers are smart now and can work out when the best time is to charge, if this was universally adopted to all domestic and public chargers this could bring down the costs.

Also I would be open to plugging ,my EV in every day I work form home for example and allowing it to feed back into the grid when required (subject to minimum charge level for the EV ie 20%) if this was adopted on mass would make difference, taking energy to charge when there is surplus but also giving it back when excess demand.

Even if we suddenly had unlimited energy we need to start using it more efficiently and where required
 
I have not really followed this thread but a question how many of you EV car users would actually buy one same as the one you run at the price they are?
I ask this question because I am summising that a high number of people on this forum with EV's are company cars, my sons cost £56K to buy and I am sure he could not afford to buy a car at that price and probably would not if he wanted to.
 
The problem with PCP's for personal use is the low final figure of a high priced car as depreciation is a major factor of second hand EV's.
I believe the final figure will get lower as the market is not there for second hand EV's
Thanks for your answer BB
 
The problem with PCP's for personal use is the low final figure of a high priced car as depreciation is a major factor of second hand EV's.
I believe the final figure will get lower as the market is not there for second hand EV's
Thanks for your answer BB
thats not the case though, residuals for EVs are increasing quite a lot.
as an example i got my Tesla model Y on the company scheme and i had to top up the allowance by £62 per month. That was 16 months ago.
Straight after that there were loads of reports of the EV market collapsing... blahblahblah... and i was very happy i got my car when i did, expecting the residuals to plummet and new company car deals to be hugely expensive.
But
My colleague has just got the same model Y on the same car allowance band as me last week - top up of £38 per month. Thats because the residuals are better than 16 months ago and therefore the term is cheaper. So hes saving over £1100 for the same 4 year deal compared to me.

The data just doesnt back up this narrative. Depreciation of most (expensive) EVs is equivalent to the same value diesel and petrol car. Unless its a JLR or Audi product, in which case its much much much better. For cheaper EVs its a little more, with the exception of French cars which is catastrophically bad.
 
Sorry not according to my readings EV car depreciate more than Diesel and ICE cars.
If you read most motor trade literature you will find that depreciation of EV's is a lot more than standard cars in the first 12 months also as they age further the battery life then becomes a real issue as the replacement cost can be more than the car is worth in some cases.
Tesla rode the wave initially but now there values are dropping through the market and the cost of most of the EV's that are usable for lets say trips off for the day lets say 200 miles round trips are in the mid to higher cost bracket.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...or-dealers-reluctant-buy-second-hand-EVs.html
 
Don't buy them on PCP then. I've just ordered a Lotus Eletre S on PCH for a little over £600 a month (£611 to be precise). Residuals are the finance company's problem. I'm retired, so no salary sacrifice for me :(
 
Been a few years since I looked at EVs but they never made financial sense to me, at the time equivalent petrol Vs EV had at least £10k price difference and that was even after the grant(is that still a thing?) but the jist of my rough calculations were something along the lines of

Car ownership 4yrs? Expected MPG and how many mile you could get from £10k and this was comparing EV being charged at home(cost not calculated ie free) and my findings were something like own the EV for 4yrs+ doing more than 9k miles and at this point your saving money, i suspect if you had to pay for fast charging on a regular basis you wouldn't be breaking even for way long if at all?

There must be something going on with EVs as a quick look on Autorader has 90%? Heavily discounted £30k+ cars down to mid 20's etc etc
 
There is a lot more parity in costs now between EVs and ice cars, especially in the mid market price range.
Tesla model Y is 44k

Find a car that has similar size and features (eg fastest model ice engine with auto box, matrix lights, heated bum warmers front + rear, all the gizmos) and you are generally looking at the top range of any comparable car to get something even remotely similar in terms of performance and tech to a standard model Y (or ioniq 5 or Kia ev6)

You can sink £50k on a VW Passat, more on a BMW X3, merc gla, Audi Q3, Volvo xc40 etc
Christ, you can even spend that much speccing out a ford Kuga or VW T-roc...
But you have to compare sensibly. Yes you can get a kuga for 30k, but with a 1.5 petrol and manual box and zero options, it's hardly a comparison on anything other than size.


It's not quite the same for cheaper smaller cars, as there is no getting away from the fact a battery and motor is more expensive than a 1.2l four banger you find in most small hatchbacks. But it's not as far off as you think.
 
Well I can speak directly on this one I bought my EV about 4 months ago now. I did not buy soley for it being an EV.
I have had my last few cars on PCP at 4 years old.
I was looking to get another focus diesel as I had run 3 previously all getting to 100k + as I do about 20k a year.
The spike in interest rates really affected the PCP deals. The sticker price was slightly higher for the EV but the monthly payments and deposit worked out the same.
Car was 4 years old and had 33k. Kona 64kw
Monthly payments came out at just over £205. Extra cost was £1k for home charger.
If I had gone for a diesel Focus or equivalent with same mileage not even same spec then it would have cost the same or more per month.
Being PCP I do not worry about the battery the car has an 8 year warranty on the battery and I hand it back. I imagine with over 100k it's next to worthless but then I replace it with another when this deal expires.
Have I had any issues with a 4 year old as opposed to new and shiny? Nope drives nice has signs of wear but will be worse when I am done ! Battery holds a good charge ie sticking to 80 percent ac charging it will still get 200+ miles range. Only place it shows is it's age is 10kw AC charge speed with the onboard charger, so can't make full use of 22kw public chargers. 70kw DC rapid charge speed so can't get the advantage of the new super fast DC chargers, but the odd time I used a 50kw DC charger is solid 50kw up to 75 percent than throttles back.
I will be honest if I was able to get a diesel focus cheaper than this I would have taken it but this was the best option and I am not disappointed only issue is traction on in the wet when pulling away that instant torque needs a gentle right foot or much better tyres. Regen braking is amazing the car can pull up very swiftly when needed and feels reassuring when you need it to be.
 
The main reason used EVs can now be picked up for the same, or less, that similar ICE cars is that there remains a scepticism, whether it be range anxiety, fear that the batteries die after X mile, or whatever. Then the fact they haven’t held value fuels this doubt further.
I recently bought a 2015 BMW i3 as a second car (already had the home charger as first car is a Tesla) which has done over 100,000 miles and it still runs like new. Battery pack on the model I bought is small but I am still getting the same range as what is quoted for a new battery of that size.
Range on battery is currently about 85 miles, will be less in winter, and a full charge at home costs me £1.40!
 
Talking about the pricing, they're definitely getting close now.
Someone was talking about a brand new Citroen e-C4 which was selling brand new for £21k (list is £36k)

Go have a look at what you can buy brand new for £21k. It won't be the size of a C4. The cheapest ICE Ford Focus is £27k.
 
Talking about the pricing, they're definitely getting close now.
Someone was talking about a brand new Citroen e-C4 which was selling brand new for £21k (list is £36k)

Go have a look at what you can buy brand new for £21k. It won't be the size of a C4. The cheapest ICE Ford Focus is £27k.

The e-C4 is dirt cheap on lease now too. I think a new model must be coming. Very comfy, if uninspiring drive. Just glides though.
 

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