was put off by the review of real word range 150 miles that was a bit too short for my use but everything else about it looked ok tbf
Electric cars.
- Thread starter Polcho
- Start date
Help Support The Homebrew Forum:
I get about 190 in summer, and 130 on the coldest of Scottish winter days. I do mostly fast A-road driving and have a heavy right foot.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2019
- Messages
- 2,327
- Reaction score
- 2,225
Given how quickly the technology and finances have been changing, let alone major things like the withdrawal of most subsidies because they're not really needed, have you considered that you're a bit out of date? And that maybe you might be better doing more listening than posting here?
For instance, we went through real-world numbers back in April here, which came back with a break even of a bit over 6000 miles per year (and which led ODNT, previously an EV sceptic, to end up putting hard cash down on one as the numbers worked for him) :
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/electric-cars.100585/page-84#post-1271777
Yes, they will always work better for people doing big mileages or who can take advantage of the one remaining major subsidy which is for company cars. But I've mentioned before I know someone who was in the sweet spot of doing 100 miles pretty much every day and they ended up leasing a Leaf for less than their monthly petrol costs.
No it's not been a thing for over 2 years. And for instance, Vauxhall are selling the petrol and electric versions of the new Frontera at the same price (£23.5k) : https://www.topgear.com/car-news/el...halls-new-frontera-cost-same-starting-ps23495
But 80% of charging is done at home - and I know several people who have never charged at a public charger. But even public charging is generally cheaper than buying petrol, and now that the upfront premium of electric is disappearing - a Frontera owner would be quids in regardless. As one example, Nicks90 went on a 1050-mile road trip to Europe using Tesla superchargers exclusively and it cost him less than £75, he reckons a petrol car would have to do 94mpg to be cheaper.
The second-hand car market has generally been a mess since Covid, and with EVs you have two specific effects with rapidly advancing technology - the value of 150-mile-range cars will crater in a world of 250-mile-range cars - and Tesla in particular having to crash their new prices as they have moved from a near monopoly on decent EVs to facing a lot of competition. But that seems to have sorted itself out this year, and ODNT reported that decent second-hand EVs weren't staying long on the forecourt when he tried to buy one. Also I see this from Fleet News, who probably have a better overview of the market than individual anecdote :
Dealer demand for used BEVs ‘stronger than petrol’
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2020
- Messages
- 1,541
- Reaction score
- 958
Well the 'market' (it's not actually a market in the basic definition of the word) is very skewed so hard to judge where the actual demand is. About 7.5 million used cars are bought every year vs. just under 2 million new cars with a good chunk in the EV sales has been driven by company cars so not exactly free choice representing peoples genuine desire...and when it comes to cars alot of people don't buy 'the cheapest' car to buy or run...they're products of desire and people are happy to pay a pretty premium to get the car they want rather the cheapest car to buy or run. So yes EV sales are on the rise, and no doubt the sale of used EV's will rise because if you dump millions of cars on the used market they will find a price that people will buy them at and they will sell, but don't confuse that with that being a consumer demand driven rise...its mostly because the market is rigged in favour of EV's - there will be a price that you can buy the market at and peoples concerns about used EV's are basically bought at a price point.
And shock horror, a magazine that lobby's for fleet owners who have thousands of used cars they are always looking to sell on, comes out and says demand in used EV's is growing is hardly surprising...call be a big cynic, but I'm not sure how unbiased they are...plenty of other sources that claim the opposite is true and there basically is no market for used EV's, but of course there are always biases in everything you read, no media outlet is free from political or commercial biases.
Going back to diesel introduction people jumped into diesel because the product was genuinely better for consumers despite the terrible reputation diesels had initially. The new technology was compelling and the products spoke for themselves. The scrappage scheme was basically peanuts and not a real clincher against a £25-£40+k car and ultimately a political gimmick. The cost of ownership, the way they drive etc. won people over...if a better product becomes available consumers will always flock to them, but we are being coerced into EV's.
Time will tell if people will come round to EV's over ICE, but I've been running my Tesla for nearly 2 years now, and I like it alot, but I've already decided what my next car will be and it's not an EV and I'll stomach the higher cost of ownership (but lower purchase cost) because its something I want. But if I were a high milage driver then I'd probably stick with EV, the economics are so stacked against ICE due to incentives, political rules, subsidies etc. ICE stands no chance on a cost of ownership basis.
EV's are here to stay that is for sure. And one other angle is that people like their big SUV's and big heavy SUV's are unaffordable to run with diesel and petrol engines, and the lower running costs of EV and hybrids drivetrains have meant people can have their Chelsea tractors and actually afford to run them and the yummy mummy set are not going to give up their Chelsea tractors any time soon. Their street cred is on the line.
But the party will be over soon enough as the tax revenues from diesel and petrol sales start to drop off the politicians will step in and start recovering those revenues from EV and hybrid drivers, in fact its already started, so enjoy the party while it lasts. HMRC demands their take, and then some. Drivers and car owners full stop are cash cows and we'll be squeezed for every penny irrespective of what car you drive you can be sure of that. Cars gives us freedom and independence which we value above all else, and the politicians know that and are happy to exploit that.
And shock horror, a magazine that lobby's for fleet owners who have thousands of used cars they are always looking to sell on, comes out and says demand in used EV's is growing is hardly surprising...call be a big cynic, but I'm not sure how unbiased they are...plenty of other sources that claim the opposite is true and there basically is no market for used EV's, but of course there are always biases in everything you read, no media outlet is free from political or commercial biases.
Going back to diesel introduction people jumped into diesel because the product was genuinely better for consumers despite the terrible reputation diesels had initially. The new technology was compelling and the products spoke for themselves. The scrappage scheme was basically peanuts and not a real clincher against a £25-£40+k car and ultimately a political gimmick. The cost of ownership, the way they drive etc. won people over...if a better product becomes available consumers will always flock to them, but we are being coerced into EV's.
Time will tell if people will come round to EV's over ICE, but I've been running my Tesla for nearly 2 years now, and I like it alot, but I've already decided what my next car will be and it's not an EV and I'll stomach the higher cost of ownership (but lower purchase cost) because its something I want. But if I were a high milage driver then I'd probably stick with EV, the economics are so stacked against ICE due to incentives, political rules, subsidies etc. ICE stands no chance on a cost of ownership basis.
EV's are here to stay that is for sure. And one other angle is that people like their big SUV's and big heavy SUV's are unaffordable to run with diesel and petrol engines, and the lower running costs of EV and hybrids drivetrains have meant people can have their Chelsea tractors and actually afford to run them and the yummy mummy set are not going to give up their Chelsea tractors any time soon. Their street cred is on the line.
But the party will be over soon enough as the tax revenues from diesel and petrol sales start to drop off the politicians will step in and start recovering those revenues from EV and hybrid drivers, in fact its already started, so enjoy the party while it lasts. HMRC demands their take, and then some. Drivers and car owners full stop are cash cows and we'll be squeezed for every penny irrespective of what car you drive you can be sure of that. Cars gives us freedom and independence which we value above all else, and the politicians know that and are happy to exploit that.
Yes I switched when I ran to numbers.
3 and 4 year old EVs are selling strongly in my area at least if they are the right car ie over 200 mile range the demand for shorter range is far less.
Sadly I am not seeing the benefits of cheap charging at home as EDF have me tied in until October and will not let me go without large exit fees. So paying 25.4p instead of 7p
Hopefully then I will see the benefits
3 and 4 year old EVs are selling strongly in my area at least if they are the right car ie over 200 mile range the demand for shorter range is far less.
Sadly I am not seeing the benefits of cheap charging at home as EDF have me tied in until October and will not let me go without large exit fees. So paying 25.4p instead of 7p
Hopefully then I will see the benefits
Yes, You will defo see the benefits from October.
Have a look at OVO when you do change. Despite what a lot of people think, Octopus aren’t the only company that provides EV tariffs.
yes i made sure my charger was both Octopus and OVO compatible fro this reason.
Just to show you what's changing in the market....
It wasn't so long ago that you couldn't buy anything realistic under £30k.
Now, you can get a brand new MG5 estate that can do 250 odd miles on a charge for under £20k.
https://www.baylis.uk.com/mg/offers/pre-reg-delivery-mileage-offers/
Now, I know many people don't buy brand new cars, so don't know what that sits against, but to put into perspective, the cheapest Ford Focus is £27k. There are very few family cars under £20k. Probably less than 5.
It wasn't so long ago that you couldn't buy anything realistic under £30k.
Now, you can get a brand new MG5 estate that can do 250 odd miles on a charge for under £20k.
https://www.baylis.uk.com/mg/offers/pre-reg-delivery-mileage-offers/
Now, I know many people don't buy brand new cars, so don't know what that sits against, but to put into perspective, the cheapest Ford Focus is £27k. There are very few family cars under £20k. Probably less than 5.
I looked at a 2022 MG5 I drove ok but felt really flimsy little things like that door cards flexed and rattled when shutting the door has only done 22k but looked very worn the Kona at same price was much nicer i thought.
But very good point the prices are being pushed down I hope when I come to replace mine in just under 4 years I can leap to the next generation with faster charging etc
But very good point the prices are being pushed down I hope when I come to replace mine in just under 4 years I can leap to the next generation with faster charging etc
I see Volvo have said that they won't be selling only electric cars by 2030:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ejye39434o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ejye39434o
well governments are rolling back any incentives for EVs and its hurting the market look at VW looking to half production staff in Germany citing the U-Turn in policy ie removal of incentives makes it unprofitable to stay in Germany.
Even in this country i will be paying the full £190 despite being fully electric, zero help to buy used, zero help to put in a home charger. This coupled with ridiculous price public chargers and in my part of the UK at least much colder temperatures really has an effect on range and turning on the heater is scary, almost as bad as the AC.
I am committed to this ev for 4 years but not sure if i will stay EV given the current shift to pay per mile I will probably be taxed out the game completely and forced onto my bike until they come for that as well
