Sadfield
Landlord.
Apply that to brewing.
Hop mashing
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Apply that to brewing.
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Most people are skeptical about the wrong things and gullible about the wrong things.
Sadfield
Landlord.
What are 'wrong things'?
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The opposite of the right things.
The last word should go to Dr Marshall Schott's findings in his experiment.
https://brulosophy.com/2022/09/05/exbeeriment-impact-mash-hopping-has-on-an-american-ipa/
Sadfield
Landlord.
micklupulo
Landlord.
Wow my query looks pathetically simple in this debate which has morphed from.brewing science to philosophy!
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Precisely you are catching on.
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Always to be expected when Sadsack gets involved.
Having worked in scientific research for 35 years I know there is a mountain of total ******** out there and some genuine research. Scientists will take money to research any old **** to keep themselves employed. Other will propose using a hobby to create a scientific study for a thesis. Some people actually believe that homeopathic preparations work too
the art of the power of persuasion can make something totally bogus into a effiacious medicine. The same applies to beer I think placebo effect is strong with the aficionados.Yip breast wadders required for the ********
An Ankoù
Landlord.
Notwithstanding the aforemention. I have two 500g bags of leaf (no, not that leaf, regrettably) one each of French Fuggles and French Goldings, both of which had lost their vacuum. They have remained in my brewery which ranges from about 12C in the winter to 22C in the summer, with nothing more than a cardboard box to protect them. I suspect they have evolved into the kind of hops the Belgians like to add to their lambics. I also have some 8 litre PETs which will be ideal for 6 litre batches.
So I intend carrying out the following experiment: 2 identical batches of 5 litres of a 1045 best bitter, Using the declared alpha acid content with a 25% utlilisation since I have no way of measuring the residual alpha acid. With one batch, I'll mash hop using the required amount of hops to give me 40 IBUs. The hops will be contained in a large bag and will also be used in the boil. The second batch will use the same amount of hops straight into the boil. I'll use K-97 at it works to liberate both terpenes and thiols. No late hops.
Objectives: To see whether hop mashing produces more bitterness than otherwise and to see whether the flavour of these knackered hops is improved by hop mashing. Im not interested to trying to improve stability and I don't think I'd be using enough hops to even notice this.
So I intend carrying out the following experiment: 2 identical batches of 5 litres of a 1045 best bitter, Using the declared alpha acid content with a 25% utlilisation since I have no way of measuring the residual alpha acid. With one batch, I'll mash hop using the required amount of hops to give me 40 IBUs. The hops will be contained in a large bag and will also be used in the boil. The second batch will use the same amount of hops straight into the boil. I'll use K-97 at it works to liberate both terpenes and thiols. No late hops.
Objectives: To see whether hop mashing produces more bitterness than otherwise and to see whether the flavour of these knackered hops is improved by hop mashing. Im not interested to trying to improve stability and I don't think I'd be using enough hops to even notice this.
Yeah. This is the brewing science bit. The philosophy involves questions like wtf does it matter anyway? What are the moral implications of buying drinking water in 8-litre PETs? What is the ontological status of a terpene that hasn't yet been severed from its glycoside precursor?
An Ankoù
Landlord.
You're right. It's Haile Selassie's birthday on Tuesday so I'll dedicate the day to rolling up my hops and dusting off my Roots collection.An Ankoù ... Nah smoke them they should be good to go now
Perhaps a couple of pints of my Lion of Judah Dodgy West Indies Lager and a steel band might be order, too.
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micklupulo
Landlord.
Re para 2 I wasn't querying the expertise but lamenting the deterioration in tone of one or two of the responses to your posts.
An Ankoù
Landlord.
Thanks @micklupulo , I didn't mean any offence, it was just banter. You have to give as good as you get on this forum.
Yeah. It can be a bit cut and thrust, but I'm sure if we were all in a pub, we'd be happy to drink together.
Well, not with Tory voters.
or Brexiters
or Capri dirvers.
or lager drinkers
or Farridge,
or evangelicals
or Trump supporters
or Everton supporters
or people who wear Bermuda shorts
or anybody who refers to the missus as "er indoors" or "the old ball and chain"
or Russian military
or Biden supporters for that matter
or anybody who drinks halves.
There, like I said, pretty much all of us.
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Sadfield
Landlord.
@jambob. Go back to my original reply to your question about mash hopping. Follow the link and you'll find my reason for mash hopping was a glut of homegrown hops, and adding 'terroir'. The science research was seeking answers to the observations that stemmed from that. The reverse of placebo.
Mash hop or don't, your choice.
What I'd hoped, from a scientist, is the recognition that most of the above is an objection to the fake citation to research, being created to dissuade from experimentation. That debate is part of the role of science, along with the removal of bias, not the enforcing of it. Labelling every post you disagree with as 'hifi' is very unscientific, to say the least and doesn't make the science wrong.
Mash hop or don't, your choice.
What I'd hoped, from a scientist, is the recognition that most of the above is an objection to the fake citation to research, being created to dissuade from experimentation. That debate is part of the role of science, along with the removal of bias, not the enforcing of it. Labelling every post you disagree with as 'hifi' is very unscientific, to say the least and doesn't make the science wrong.
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It has also morphed into a slanging match between two members, can we cut out the personal stuff, thanks.
And a lot of this applies to brewing one expert says this but can always find another expert to contradict it.Having worked in scientific research for 35 years I know there is a mountain of total ******** out there and some genuine research. Scientists will take money to research any old **** to keep themselves employed. Other will propose using a hobby to create a scientific study for a thesis. Some people actually believe that homeopathic preparations work too
Yip breast wadders required for the ********
It all depends on where you search and read stuff.
Micklupino read between the lines and make your own assumptions and try it if it does not work as you expected try another approach.
One of the few useful things I picked up from reading Mathematics at Peterhouse, in the late 1970's-
"It is usually fairly straightforward to prove something that is true and much more difficult to prove that which is false. Usually proving something that is false requires far more effort and ingenuity that something that is merely true".
"It is usually fairly straightforward to prove something that is true and much more difficult to prove that which is false. Usually proving something that is false requires far more effort and ingenuity that something that is merely true".
I'm with @An Ankoù.
Start from "oh, that sounds interesting" and test it out.
Make 2 brews and taste test them to see if it makes any difference.
Get others in your family to try them side by side too.
Then we can have a civil thread saying something like "I could taste batch b was less bitter, but the Mrs & her sister couldn't tell the difference"
If you're that worried, repeat with different beer styles.
Start from "oh, that sounds interesting" and test it out.
Make 2 brews and taste test them to see if it makes any difference.
Get others in your family to try them side by side too.
Then we can have a civil thread saying something like "I could taste batch b was less bitter, but the Mrs & her sister couldn't tell the difference"
If you're that worried, repeat with different beer styles.
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