Your views on how the Tories have handled Coronavirus.

[dad_of_jon]

I did say weeks ago we should have learned from the Italian numbers ( I may have called Boris a few names) but the horse has now bolted.
Exercise should definitely have been limited but it’s all too little too late now.
We were forced into lockdown but watch now as the numbers drop the clamour for loosening the restrictions, this country will stop at nothing to get “back on track”
Some people would rather risk their lives (and thousands of others ) rather than have an extra week off work or being denied their right to do whatever they please.

Whenever I go out I always keep 2 meters away from others. I cycle on main roads for exercise (cycle paths are rammed in comparison) However in supermarkets my 2m space has often been impinged on. I wait patiently for someone to go if they are close to something I want to buy. one guy pushed past me. 'so much for social distancing I called out' - 'If you didn't take so much time choosing what to buy I wouldn't have to' he replied. - what a ******. but that's life. There are too many numpties like that. I'd say put an ankle tag on the repeat offenders and if they leave home stick them all together under one roof - then the rest of us can be allowed to carry on with life as normal as possible but following social distancing guidelines. ankle tags could help save lives, I'm not sure why this hasn't been considered as a fine seems dis-proportionate to the damage repeat offenders can do to complete strangers.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Why does everyone else have to provide evidence? @Chippy_Tea, you get to express whatever

Because its way too easy to slate the tories for what they haven't done and say they were too slow doing what they have and say they have blood on their hand (which was posted) without backing up these claims with facts, here are the facts.


Italy and the UK entered nationwide lockdowns around the same time. Italy's took place 17 days after the country's first death, while in the UK it took place 18 days later. Spain's lockdown happened earlier.
The newly announced restrictions follow days of controversy over whether the UK was moving too slowly to force Britons to stay at home except in exceptional circumstances as the death toll reached 335.


China
Lockdown in Hubei province begins 23 January with death toll at 17

China, where the first cases of coronavirus emerged, was the first country to announce a major lockdown, in Wuhan and the other big cities in Hubei province. At the time of the announcement, the disease was confirmed to have claimed 17 lives and infected almost 600 other people, although it is not clear how accurate a picture this represents after the first cases emerged in mid-December.

In the early hours of 23 January, residents were told that from 10am that day all public transport would be closed and residents of Wuhan were forbidden to leave the city, although large numbers are believed to have fled before the lockdown. By late afternoon, roads from Wuhan and other exits had been shut off.


Italy
Lockdown begins 9 March with death toll at 463 and 9,000 infections

Italy imposed its lockdown after attempting a limited quarantine of northern towns and then a chaotic quarantine of the north only that led to thousands attempting to flee.

The lockdown restricted movement of the population except for necessity, work and health circumstances. Additional restrictions mandated the temporary closure of non-essential shops and businesses. Two days later, the lockdown was tightened to close all commercial and retail businesses except those providing essential services, such as grocery stores and pharmacies.


Spain
Lockdown begins 15 March with death toll at 288 and 7,753 cases

After a marathon cabinet session the day before, the prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, told Spaniards they were banned from leaving home except for work and for essential travel. Cases had exploded at the start of the month, with 30 deaths by 9 March.

A state of emergency also ordered the closure of all non-essential shops as well as bars, restaurants, cafes, football grounds and cinemas. People are allowed out only to work, to buy food and medicine, to travel to health centres or banks, and to look after the elderly or dependants.

France
Lockdown announced on evening of 16 March with death toll at 148 and with 6,633 confirmed cases

France had reached China’s 17 deaths around 8 March and moved to a full lockdown just over a week later. Similar to the Italian lockdown, French citizens were tightly restricted, with people expected to stay at home, leaving only for essential activities such as food shopping on pain of a fixed fine of €135. Officials later clarified that a dispensation for exercise meant walks or runs of no more than “1km, 2km max” and close to hom

 

[foxy]

If I was living in the UK instead of crying, bleating and playing the blame game, I would be preparing for the next phase, food shortages are forecast, UK imports 80% of its food and it looks like the lock down is going to continue. So much negative energy is being wasted over something which can't be changed. Countries are going to keep hold of their food supplies to feed their own populace, so food prices to rise and more than likely rationing, like the boy scout, be prepared.

 

[An Ankoù]

Lock down continues until 11th May here in sunny Brittany. Then, inshallah, a bit of easing: kids return to school, more shops open, but not bars, cafés, restaurants etc. Social distancing and gaily patterned masks to nicely offset the Bermuda shorts and flip-flops (thongs in the Antipodes) will be de rigeur. Happily, I took @MadChefUK 's post and mask recipe seriously and knocked up half a dozen yesterday before going out on my fortnightly quest of the Golden BogRoll and baguette. On the subject of masks, I very much favour the Lone Ranger style. So much more fetching, and doesn't interfere with enjoyment of your roll up!

Hi ho Silver.
Awaaaaay!!!!!!!

 

[MyQul]

If I was living in the UK instead of crying, bleating and playing the blame game, I would be preparing for the next phase, food shortages are forecast, UK imports 80% of its food and it looks like the lock down is going to continue. So much negative energy is being wasted over something which can't be changed. Countries are going to keep hold of their food supplies to feed their own populace, so food prices to rise and more than likely rationing, like the boy scout, be prepared.

Already on it. We're headed for a massive recession plus I also think if Brexit goes as bad as some people predict (I know, I know, it might not but who knows) That we'll get food shortages exactly because of exactly the reason you state - we import 80% of our food.
Fortunately for me about 90% of of what I eat is dried goods (pasta, grains beans and pulses), which I can store away and if the predictions turn out wrong. I'll just eat my way through my stock

 

[foxy]

Was reading an article from an economist a couple of days ago, the quickest way out of a recession is war. Trouble with that is it could be the quickest way to oblivion, depending on the combatants. Give me the however many years of recession/depression.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Foxy please don't take offence but i am renaming you jovial Joe

 

[Stephenj]

If I was living in the UK instead of crying, bleating and playing the blame game, I would be preparing for the next phase, food shortages are forecast, UK imports 80% of its food and it looks like the lock down is going to continue. So much negative energy is being wasted over something which can't be changed. Countries are going to keep hold of their food supplies to feed their own populace, so food prices to rise and more than likely rationing, like the boy scout, be prepared.

Stockpiling? Everyone for themselves? Protect ones castle at any cost? We not been through the scaremongering selfishness already?

Now, wheres my shotgun?????????

 

[dad_of_jon]

Foxy please don't take offence but i am renaming you jovial Joe

I'm trying to remain positive... The weathers as sunny as 'straylia but the wildlife isn't trying to kill you. Plus I'm lucky that I have a garden to enjoy, my black cloud is i'm down to less than 90 bottles of HB
although I do have 53 bottles conditioning

 

[foxy]

Foxy please don't take offence but i am renaming you jovial Joe

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst is my motto.

Stockpiling? Everyone for themselves? Protect ones castle at any cost? We not been through the scaremongering selfishness already?

Now, wheres my shotgun?????????

Yes, we have already seen a darker side of human nature with all the shelves emptying in the supermarkets. And that was before the ready, steady go.

 

[evildrome]

Yes, taxes will have to rise to pay for it

That's not the way government finances work.

That's the way YOUR finances work. You are a currency user, they are currency issuers.


Lets do a worked example.


What happens if the UK NHS employs 100 more doctors and pays them £300 a day?

Debt goes up by £30,000 a day. GDP goes up by £30,000 a day.

Debt to GDP remains unchanged.

If we had no tax.

But we do.

So total deduction per day (income tax & NI) are £96.07 so GDP is still up by £30,000 a day but debt is up (£300 - £96.07) = £ 203.93 X 100 = £20,393

GDP up £30k, debt up ~ £20k.

OMG!!! Debt to GDP falls! We've employed 100 doctors and we've reduced debt from 88% to 68%!!

And it gets better.

That debt reduction assumes that the doctor pays his tax and then burns the rest of the money.

Of course what actually happens is that he spends his money into the economy which is earned by shopkeepers and plumbers, etc and so on and is again taxed and earned and taxed, etc and so on.

By this process of churn the government can get back 2 or 3 times the money in tax that it paid out originally.

This is how the debt after WWII was rapidly paid down. Lots of people doing lots of government paid for work.

Money for a government isn't money, its more like tokens to represent work.

Its makes NO SENSE to withhold the tokens if there is work to be done & people to do it.

The only reason to withhold tokens would be to create an army of the unemployed, desperate to work at any price.

Sound familiar?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Already on it. We're headed for a massive recession plus I also think if Brexit goes as bad as some people predict (I know, I know, it might not but who knows) That we'll get food shortages exactly because of exactly the reason you state - we import 80% of our food.

BBC today -

Britain's independent tax and spending watchdog has warned the coronavirus pandemic could see the UK economy shrink by a record 35% by June.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) said that this was based on an assumption that the current lockdown would last for three months.

Once restrictions were lifted, the OBR said it expected no lasting damage.

Separately, the International Monetary Fund warned the virus would push the UK into its deepest slump for a century.

The IMF expects the UK economy will shrink by 6.5% in 2020, while the global economy will contract by 3%.

It said the pandemic had plunged the world into a "crisis like no other".

The OBR's forecast - which is just focused on the virus's impact on the UK economy and public finances - is more severe.

It said a three-month lockdown followed by three months of partial restrictions would push up the UK's borrowing bill to an estimated £273bn this financial year, or 14% of gross domestic product (GDP).

This would represent the largest deficit as a share of GDP since World War Two.

While borrowing is expected to jump, the OBR said the government's unprecedented financial help for workers and businesses would help to limit any long-term damage.

It expects half of the sharp drop in economic growth in the second quarter to be reversed in the three months to September.

While the UK economy is expected to contract by 13% for the year as a whole, the UK is expected to get back to its pre-crisis growth trend by the end of 2020.

The OBR expects a more lasting impact on unemployment, which is estimated to rise by 2.1 million to 3.4 million by the end of June.

Under this scenario, unemployment would hit 10%, from its current 3.9% rate, before easing to around 7.3% at the end of the year.

The jobless rate is expected to remain elevated until 2023, when it is expected to drop back to 4%, in line with the OBR's March forecast.

Lasting impact on public finances
The OBR expects UK debt to remain elevated for years to come, with extra borrowing expected to push Britain's debt share to above 100% of GDP this financial year.

While this will drop sharply as the UK economy recovers, public debt is expected to remain at 84.9% of GDP in four years time, much higher than the 75.3% forecast in the March Budget.

However, the OBR said extra spending by the Treasury to support the economy was crucial to limit the economic damage.

"The government's policy response will have substantial direct budgetary costs, but the measures should help limit the long-term damage to the economy and public finances - the costs of inaction would certainly have been higher."

It added that while the lockdown was the main constraint on economic activity, relaxing these measures too soon would cause greater damage.

"The reason why most of the short-term economic impact comes from these measures is that they are successful in limiting the spread of the disease.

"If the measures were not stringent enough to control the disease, then the economic impact from illness would be that much greater."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52279871

 

[Brizer]

Stockpiling? Everyone for themselves? Protect ones castle at any cost? We not been through the scaremongering selfishness already?

Now, wheres my shotgun?????????

Have to agree with this comment so much food is being wasted now because of stockpiling, we dont want ration books we just need to be aware that this virus is going to be around for a long time to come, let's try and stick to the rules and stay safe and well for everybody's sake. If we don't many more will die worldwide.

 

[terrym]

This is how the debt after WWII was rapidly paid down.

I was under the impression that the UK debt accrued as a result of WW2 was only paid off a few years ago (mid noughties?)

 

[Dutto]

Hi there. It's a long story so my advice is to get a cuppa (or a pint) before you start!

Back in 1967 I got ran off the road (the Judge made the man's insurance company pay me +/-3 years wages) and finished up in hospital with a mangled left knee for four months and off work for another five; but I recovered well and went back to work okay.

By 2015 my left knee finally went belly-up after 38 years of wear (maybe starting my own Company in 1987 called "Tramp the Gramps" which offered guided walks in the Grampian Mountains wasn't the smartest move!) and I elected to have a Total Knee Replacement (TKR).

The new TKR was like a new lease of life, but by 2016 my right knee was shot so I went back for a TKR on my right knee. Again, a massive success!

The two new knees obviously meant that I could become a bit more active so it came as no surprise that by the beginning of this year my left hip was operating "bone-on-bone" and the pain was excruciating Luckily, I managed to have a Total Hip Replacement on 25th February this year; just before they dropped the shutters on "elective surgery".

WOW! I got home on the 28th February and almost immediately started "self isolation" in the belief that staying away from the NHS was probably the best help we could offer. (Ha!! Read on!)

We always keep loads of stuff in the house so the “self isolation” was going well and the THR was so good that I went out for a 1km walk around the neighbourhood on 3rd April to celebrate - then I tripped and fell when re-entering the house!

Not too bad. My left leg ached, but I had obviously started something because two days later my leg gave way and the net result was a fractured thigh!

Here's the weird bit! The original repair in 1967 was not affected, the TKR in 2015 was not affected and the THR in February was not affected! Apparently, I managed to break my femur where it leaves the repaired bit from 1967.

Hey Ho! The surgeon reckons that he had to really pull the bone about to glue/screw/clamp a repair in place so now I’m not allowed to put any weight on my left leg for “up to a year”!

So, from "self isolating" to avoid contact with the NHS I went to "patient of the NHS" within seconds!

I spent a whole eight days in Lincoln General Hospital and some of their practices seemed weird:

1. I was picked up by an ambulance where the medics didn't wear face-masks. (This may be because I self reported my accident and it had nothing to do with the virus.)
2. I was given a face-mask to wear when we arrived at the hospital so that I wouldn't pick up anything from the "reception area".
3. On the Wards, Patients weren't expected to wear face-masks; but ALL the Medical Staff had to wear them!
4. Patients were judged to not have Covid-19 if they didn't have a hacking cough or a high temperature.
5. In eight days I was never tested for Covid-19.
6. Apparently, none of the Medical Staff were tested for Covid-19 if they didn't show any of the signs!
7. The communal facilities for patients (toilets, commodes, wheelchairs etc) were "sanitised" after they had been used; but not in a fashion that I would recommend to a Homebrewer!
8. After discharge, I was sent home in an ambulance where the two gentlemen didn't wear masks, I think that this was that they didn't want to upset some people.

So, the last few weeks have been a hectic and educational time for me. I have come to the following conclusions:

1. How ever much we are paying our NHS Staff, it is not enough!
2. Every Member of the NHS Staff should be tested. Waiting for them to develop the symptoms is very much "after the horse has bolted" in my mind!
3. I already held the Surgeons, Doctors, Nurses and Staff of the NHS in very high regard but to my mind they are working in a potentially hazardous environment with a minimum of PPE.
4. They are ALL heroes in the best sense of the word and deserve much better from whichever Government is in power!

Maybe the saying ...

“Life’s sh!t and then you die!”

... has an element of truth to it!

I've only been back home since Sunday evening and I'm worn out; so signing off for at least 48 hours! :hat::hat:

 

[MyQul]

@Dutto We were all beginning to get a bit worried wondering where you were. But thankfully you've risen lazurus like, in a similar fashion to out glorious leader BJ. In fact, I was begining to wonder whether you were holed up in Chequers with him (naked swimming in the indoor pool?).

Anyway, Welcome back and time to get a brew on!

 

[An Ankoù]

@Dutto We were all beginning to get a bit worried wondering where you were. But thankfully you've risen lazurus like, in a similar fashion to out glorious leader BJ. In fact, I was begining to wonder whether you were holed up in Chequers with him (naked swimming in the indoor pool?).

Anyway, Welcome back and time to get a brew on!

The thought of Dutto and BoJo frolicking in the raw in the pool is more than my remaining operational grey cells can manage.
I'm off for a cold shower with the dog.

 

[MyQul]

The thought of Dutto and BoJo frolicking in the raw in the pool is more than my remaining operational grey cells can manage.
I'm off for a cold shower with the dog.

Thought that might put a couple of people off their IPA's

 

[Rodcx500z]

Bloody hell Dutto you have been in the wars, just take it easy and get back on yer feet soon

 

[foxy]

Dutto in hospital.