You can legally sell your cider, but not your beer!!

[silverbrewer]

Legally, if you home brew beer it is for you and yours, so you cannot give it away, even to your mates! Obviously the letter of the law is ignored, but should you actually start selling it on the quiet, then all hell could break loose.

If you make Cider on the other hand, you can sell it no problem, up to 70 hectolitres a year, before duty becomes payable. 70 hectolitres is a massive amount in the region of 1,500 gallons!

I have no idea how this stupid anomaly came about, but you can bet farmers had something to do with it. It would be fantastic if we could brew and sell beer in these small quantities so you could get the practice to get better and have your friends help pay the grain bill.

I may be adding a solitary well scrubbed apple to each of my brews and calling the resulting beer "Roger's weird tasting cider" :whistle:

 

[scott78]

its not that simple, the duty free quota is to keep the small family cider farms running. you would have to tell HMRC that you are going to do it become a small scale cider producer, thay may come out to see you. and if you add anything not on the list of approved ingredients then its classed as made wine and you have to pay duty.
you cannot sell it without telling the council your a producer of foodstuff, any you cannot sell it to anyone without a premisis licence.
so many hoops to jump.

 

[Crastney]

indeed, there was a fear that farmers with small very old orchards would grub up the trees, and remove boundary hedges, to make larger fields that would be more manageable for growing other cash crops, and subisidies and grants from Common Agricultural Policy. However, this would lead to potential loss of old rare varieties of fruit tree, and also loss of habitat, so the duty was removed below a certain limit, to try to stop this from happening, making small orchards more likely to pay their way.

 

[silverbrewer]

There is an apple tree at the end of the garden!! Do you think if I threatened to rip it out and replace it with a Leylandii, they may change the law, and give everyone a break?

It was a good thought while it lasted....I'll just have to set up a <edited by admin> in the woods, buy a tatty V8 pick up, team up with some brain dead buddies, get some telly channel to film me, and pay for my beer that way.....Oh sh1t ...someone beat me to it.... :)

 

[Crastney]

plus if you call it 'cider' it has to have at least a certain percentage of apple juice in it (which I think of the top of my head is 55%).
what I make is pretty much 100% apple juice (when it starts it is, but I top up with filtered water).

 

[calumscott]

Legally, if you home brew beer it is for you and yours, so you cannot give it away, even to your mates!

Not true.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/31/section/7

"A person who produces beer on any premises shall not be required to be registered under this section in respect of those premises if the beer is produced solely for his own domestic use or solely for the purposes of research or experiments in the production of beer."

"Domestic use" is key. Domestic use of homebrew must be taken to mean non-commercial use like you would with a bottle of beer you bought from the shop. You'd take that to your mates' BBQ, you'd enjoy a few together while watching the footie, you'd give him a couple of "here, try this..." bottles because he's your mate. All domestic uses.

should you actually start selling it on the quiet, then all hell could break loose.

Just expect to be prosecuted, charged duty on what you've been seen to have brewed and have to pay duty on all your beer from that point forward (if they agree to give you a licence given you've been busted) unless its "experimental".

If you make Cider on the other hand, you can sell it no problem, up to 70 hectolitres a year, before duty becomes payable. 70 hectolitres is a massive amount in the region of 1,500 gallons!

Not *strictly* true.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/4/section/62

"(1)There shall be charged on cider—
(a)imported into the United Kingdom; or
(b)made in the United Kingdom by a person who is required by subsection (2) below to be registered as a maker of cider,

(2)Subject to subsection (3) below, a person who, on any premises in the United Kingdom, makes cider for sale must be registered with the Commissioners in respect of those premises.

(3)The Treasury may by order made by statutory instrument provide for exempting from subsection (2) above makers of cider whose production does not exceed such limit as is specified in the order and who comply with such other conditions as may be so specified."

That statutory instument appears to be:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1976/1206/contents/made

"(1) Subject to Articles 3 and 4 of this Order, a person who makes cider for sale whose production of cider does not exceed 1,500 gallons in a period of 12 consecutive months shall be exempt from the requirement in section 2(2) of the Finance Act 1976 in respect of the premises on which such production takes place.
(2) Save as the Commissioners otherwise allow, no more than one maker of cider shall be exempt at any one time in respect of the same premises."

"3. Every maker of cider claiming exemption shall notify the Collector in writing of such claim and shall specify the premises in respect of which he claims exemption."

"4. A person exempt under Article 2 of this Order shall furnish to the Commissioners on request such records of or information about his production of cider as may be necessary to establish that the conditions of Article 2 of this Order are or have been complied with."

And the implementation of it by HMRC is:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/wicimanual/wici4010.htm

"Makers of cider for sale whose production, including that for their own consumption, does not exceed 70 hectolitres in any 12 consecutive months are exempt from the requirement to register as a maker of cider for sale.

They are, however, required to -

- claim exemption from registration by notifying the NRU in writing of their claim and specifying the premises in respect of which they claim exemption; and
- furnish such records or information about their cider production as is necessary to verify their claim for exemption."

I have no idea how this stupid anomaly came about, but you can bet farmers had something to do with it. It would be fantastic if we could brew and sell beer in these small quantities so you could get the practice to get better and have your friends help pay the grain bill.

I may be adding a solitary well scrubbed apple to each of my brews and calling the resulting beer "Roger's weird tasting cider" :whistle:

You'll get busted.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/1914/memorandum/contents

"The outcome is that the amended definition of cider includes a
requirement for a minimum volume of apple or pear juice in the prefermentation
mixture equal to 35 % of the volume of that mixture, and a
requirement for the volume of juice included in the cider overall to amount to
at least 35 % of the volume of the final product. In addition there is a
specification of the minimum gravity of 1033 degrees for the juice. Specific
gravity is a measurement of the quality and strength of fruit juice and 1033
degrees is an acceptable level for use in the manufacture of traditional cider."

And from the ALDA:

'“Cider” means, subject to section 55B(1) below, cider (or perry) of a strength exceeding 1.2 per cent but less than 8.5 per cent obtained from the fermentation of apple or pear juice without the addition at any time of any alcoholic liquor or of any liquor or substance which communicates colour or flavour other than such as the Commissioners may allow as appearing to them to be necessary to make cider (or perry).'

I really don't think that malt and hops will be deemed by the commisioners "to be necessary to make cider"...

Sorry.

 

[oldbloke]

ISTR cider has to be 70% AJ.

 

[calumscott]

ISTR cider has to be 70% AJ.

Is that 70% of the 35% then? So for an apple cider to be an apple cider you could use 24.5% apple, 10.5% pear and make the rest up with sugar, water and flavouring?

 

[oldbloke]

Nah. Seems I'm mis-remembering something I read on one of the govt's sites, as it's clearly contradicted by that 35% thing above.

 

[calumscott]

I wouldn't be surprised though if there was a regulation on the proportions of apple/pear to be able to call it apple cider or perry or pear cider or what have you...

...and on that note, the On The Rocks Pear Cider I did for SWMBO that tastes exactly like Kopparberg is mostly...

...concentrated grape juice!

 

[oldbloke]

Yeh, it may be that - cider is not worse than 70/30 apple/pear, perry vice-versa. Maybe. I forget so much down here in the cryo bay (pint to anybody who knows what movie that's from).

 

[Crastney]

Alien? or Matrix

 

[Chris_1984]

I was going to say Dark Star

 

[oldbloke]

Chris wins.

I owe you a pint, Chris.

 

[Chris_1984]

Cheers; and kudos for the film choice.