Yeast Types & Underlying Flavors

[Zephyr259]

Method and calculator.

See the above links for my method, essentially the same as trueblue does but with less jars kicking about (until you have 3+ yeasts on the go).

Boils down to calculating the yeast required for your brew then making a starter which will grow an extra 100 billion cells, you then keep some under the green starter beer in the fridge and pitch the rest. The chilled sample is equivalent to the original smack pack and the process can be repeated. If you brew standard strength brew then it often works out as a 1.5 L starter where you pitch 1 L and save 500 mls. The 100 billion cells will keep 6 months in the fridge, at which point there's an estimated 25 billion remaining. This is a nice number as when pitched into 500 mls of 1.040 starter wort it'll grow back to 100 billion. So if not used you can "refresh" every 6 months.

 

[hamster]

Boils down to calculating the yeast required for your brew then making a starter which will grow an extra 100 billion cells, you then keep some under the green starter beer in the fridge and pitch the rest. The chilled sample is equivalent to the original smack pack and the process can be repeated. If you brew standard strength brew then it often works out as a 1.5 L starter where you pitch 1 L and save 500 mls. The 100 billion cells will keep 6 months in the fridge, at which point there's an estimated 25 billion remaining. This is a nice number as when pitched into 500 mls of 1.040 starter wort it'll grow back to 100 billion. So if not used you can "refresh" every 6 months.

Thanks they are great links...

Think I get this but confused over the multi steps if you need to grow more than you can with the initial starter... It moves onto Step 2 with more starter but what DME do you add ? Same amount as step 1? None ?

I'm also assuming you calculate the start count of yeast cells but estimating given your above assumptions on cell 'death' over time ?

A third question (sorry)... How do you manage with dry hop in the FV whilst washing the yeast ?

I dumped 4l of sterile water into my FV yesterday, shaken it up and let it settle but as I used leaf quite a bit of that is now floating. Do you worry about the amount of beer left within this mixture as well ?

 

[hamster]

My washed yeast still seems incredibly beery :-?

 

[fourbob]

Back to the original question; yes, the yeast will affect the flovour of your beer. Similar dried yeasts to try might include Mangrove Jacks West Coast and Crossmyloof US Pale Ale.

Nottingham is a good option for a slightly different, neutral and very reliable yeast.

Something like a Windsor or a MJ Empire yeast will give you a lower attenuation and a much maltier flavour profile, which I find works well in darker English style ales.

I've never gone down the liquid yeast route because I can't be bothered with the additional stages of making a starter and having bottles of starter hanging around in the fridge, but I guess one day I'll get drawn in....

 

[foxbat]

Think I get this but confused over the multi steps if you need to grow more than you can with the initial starter... It moves onto Step 2 with more starter but what DME do you add ? Same amount as step 1? None ?

Example:

Step 1 starter volume: 1 litres. DME required = 100g
Step 2 starter volume: 2 litres. DME required = 200g

Total DME required = 300g

Do step 1 like normal. When fermentation is complete, chill for a few days. Decant off as much of the spent clear-looking wort as possible. Pour in the next step's boiled and cooled DME on top of the much-multiplied yeast and off you go again with the stir plate...

With that brewunited calculator you can fiddle with the "Starter Volume (liters)" box on each step to best suit the size of your flask. For example if it starts off recommending sizes of 1 and 2 litres and your flask size is 2 litres you might try to bring it down to 1.5 and 1.5 to lessen the risk of a krausencano. I thought that wouldn't happen in a wort with a visible stir-vortex in the centre until the last one I did (photo attached).

 

[Fil]

when making liquor for starters with dme to achieve a target gravity circa 1.040 add 100g per liter to an empty vessel and top up to the target volume with water.

If you add 100g of dme to 1litre of water the result will be slightly more dilute, as the volume of dme will increase the volume of resulting liquor over the 1l mark.

 

[hamster]

Example:

Step 1 starter volume: 1 litres. DME required = 100g
Step 2 starter volume: 2 litres. DME required = 200g

Total DME required = 300g

Do step 1 like normal. When fermentation is complete, chill for a few days. Decant off as much of the spent clear-looking wort as possible. Pour in the next step's boiled and cooled DME on top of the much-multiplied yeast and off you go again with the stir plate...

With that brewunited calculator you can fiddle with the "Starter Volume (liters)" box on each step to best suit the size of your flask. For example if it starts off recommending sizes of 1 and 2 litres and your flask size is 2 litres you might try to bring it down to 1.5 and 1.5 to lessen the risk of a krausencano. I thought that wouldn't happen in a wort with a visible stir-vortex in the centre until the last one I did (photo attached).

You beauty thanks !

Well I've ordered 4 different types of yeast including a liquid yeast. Will only need some of that as going to split my favorite recipe into 4 and test each. Rest of that liquid yeast I will duplicate and see how far I get...

Thanks all

 

[Zephyr259]

Thanks they are great links...

Think I get this but confused over the multi steps if you need to grow more than you can with the initial starter... It moves onto Step 2 with more starter but what DME do you add ? Same amount as step 1? None ?

I'm also assuming you calculate the start count of yeast cells but estimating given your above assumptions on cell 'death' over time ?

A third question (sorry)... How do you manage with dry hop in the FV whilst washing the yeast ?

I dumped 4l of sterile water into my FV yesterday, shaken it up and let it settle but as I used leaf quite a bit of that is now floating. Do you worry about the amount of beer left within this mixture as well ?

As folks have said above it's normally 100g/L for the starter wort, the brew united calculator gives this if you set wort gravity to 1.037 sg. I like the method of 100g topped up to 1L, hadn't thought of that as it should give 1.040. Personally, I set it to 1.040 which is 110g in a litre of water, never actually check the sg though.

The calculator estimates the viabliity decrease over time and I work with the manufacturers statement of 100 billion cells at time of packaging.

Can't help with washing as I've never done it. I've re-used a yeast slurry once but just racked the fresh wort on top of the existing cake since it was a barelywine of 1.092 og on top of a 1.050 bitter's surry.

I'm actually gonna get some sterile test tubes and freeze some yeast in a glycerine solution. I want to play with more yeast but my wife's gonna start rebelling if I have more than 3 jars of yeast in the fridge.

 

[Fil]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zUYxb-_B8A[/ame]

White Labs have produced a lot of really good how to vids on yeast starters and brewing, my only objection/complaint would be their insistence of associating the initial foam up of the boil when brewing as the 'hot break' when the hot break can occour upto 70 mins into the boil aarrgghhhh....

 

[DoctorMick]

Method and calculator.

See the above links for my method, essentially the same as trueblue does but with less jars kicking about (until you have 3+ yeasts on the go).

Boils down to calculating the yeast required for your brew then making a starter which will grow an extra 100 billion cells, you then keep some under the green starter beer in the fridge and pitch the rest. The chilled sample is equivalent to the original smack pack and the process can be repeated. If you brew standard strength brew then it often works out as a 1.5 L starter where you pitch 1 L and save 500 mls. The 100 billion cells will keep 6 months in the fridge, at which point there's an estimated 25 billion remaining. This is a nice number as when pitched into 500 mls of 1.040 starter wort it'll grow back to 100 billion. So if not used you can "refresh" every 6 months.

That's what I do, it's incredibly easy and I never had much luck harvesting yeast after fermentation.

 

[Zephyr259]

Oh, a word of warning which Foxbat also mentioned. A 1.5L starter in a 2L flask will quite likely over flow, some of my yeasts have been fine and didnt foam that much but the belgian did, a lot... If the description of the yeast includes "true top cropper" then beware. Stirplate doesn't seem to knock out the foam, maybe it would at 1L but not above it. I've got Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes which was the issue (twice) so I'm more wary for the west yorkshire strain when I come to use it.