Would you still vote for Brexit?

[An Ankoù]

at the same time they are terrified we might do better outside the EU, so they feel the need to hobble us.

I don't know why you say that. I get a sense of sadness that a member is leaving, they are unaware that the departure is acrimonious. And this is coupled with a degree of nonchalance. The French, at least, always knew that the Brits were a bit crazy, and loved them all the more for that. For some daft reason, they seem to look up to the Brits like a big brother kicking off in the family nest. In the papers, there's next to nothing about Brexit these days. It's history. How can they "hobble us" ? The bottom line is no-one really cares. Covid has mangled the old industrial order anyway. Germany are going back into lockdown. They're not worried about losing a few UK sales of dodgy Beamers, they've more serious things to worry about.
Chill, Saisonator. Enjoy your Brexit. Europe will be OK.

 

[LeeH]

Yes.

 

[VW911]

I ummed and ahhed (sp?) at the vote, but voted to leave.
Would do so again.... (without the umming and ahhing!)

 

[marshbrewer]

I've realised that I've contributed to this thread without answering the OP's original question, so..

I voted Leave because my natural instinct is, wherever possible, to move power closer to the individual and away from centralisation. But, I wasn't overly passionate about it, and went to bed expecting a narrow remain victory.

However, the behaviour of the EU in these negotiations has convinced me that we had a lucky escape, and need to leave properly and crack on with it. So I would vote leave again, and be much more passionate about it.

I hope we are able to strike free trade deals with everyone, everywhere, including the EU, as they are invariably win win for both parties. I fear that may not be possible in the short. Let's hope I'm wrong.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I don't know why you say that. I get a sense of sadness that a member is leaving, they are unaware that the departure is acrimonious. And this is coupled with a degree of nonchalance. The French, at least, always knew that the Brits were a bit crazy, and loved them all the more for that. For some daft reason, they seem to look up to the Brits like a big brother kicking off in the family nest. In the papers, there's next to nothing about Brexit these days. It's history. How can they "hobble us" ? The bottom line is no-one really cares. Covid has mangled the old industrial order anyway. Germany are going back into lockdown. They're not worried about losing a few UK sales of dodgy Beamers, they've more serious things to worry about.
Chill, Saisonator. Enjoy your Brexit. Europe will be OK.

As always AA you speak more sense than anyone on here. Keep it up ( and the sense).

 

[terrym]

As always AA you speak more sense than anyone on here. Keep it up ( and the sense).

Clearly you must include yourself in that (without any disrespect intended to AA).

 

[obscure]

I voted remain and would vote remain again (or rejoin if we ever get their) without hesitation, I have yet to hear a single genuine tangible benefit of leaving the EU.

 

[Oneflewover]

I've realised that I've contributed to this thread without answering the OP's original question, so..

I voted Leave because my natural instinct is, wherever possible, to move power closer to the individual and away from centralisation. But, I wasn't overly passionate about it, and went to bed expecting a narrow remain victory.

However, the behaviour of the EU in these negotiations has convinced me that we had a lucky escape, and need to leave properly and crack on with it. So I would vote leave again, and be much more passionate about it.

I hope we are able to strike free trade deals with everyone, everywhere, including the EU, as they are invariably win win for both parties. I fear that may not be possible in the short. Let's hope I'm wrong.

This pretty much sums up how I felt about it back then and how I feel about it now.

 

[Avo]

Bored already

The

This pretty much sums up how I felt about it back then and how I feel about it now.

I'd vote remain again if I had the choice, and I will support Scotland's effort to become independent.

 

[Roddy J]

I saw through all the lies of project fear and I voted leave in 2014. I'll do so again in 2 years time.

 

[Wherrypuzzled]

I voted Leave in 1975 after our trial Membership and the figures (roughly) were 66% Join / Remain and 33% Dont join / Leave

That was a 33% majority - thirty three per cent ! Nobody really complained and I was on the wrong side of the result but just got on with it . Only certain factions mostly from the Tory Party kept banging on about it

Lots of things changed of course in the 40 ish years but then we came to the Referendum of 2016 and the majority was just around 4% - 4 per cent an eighth of the 1975 majority

I voted Remain in 2016 and so was on the wrong side of the vote for a second time and though I dont expect to be around if / when another Referendum comes along I would vote to rejoin in a flash - and I would expect it to be third time lucky for me as I reckon I would be on the winning side at last

 

[Cheyne_brewer]

Interestingly, only 4 out of 18 posts answer the question (plus one who wasn't entitled to vote). Even the OP doesn't make his position clear.
But it's a hypothetical question based on what we knew 4½ years ago and what we know today. Do we have a better idea of things today? Of course we do. The way the question is framed, only those who voted leave the the first time round are invited to say whether they would vote the same way now. So I can't answer as I voted remain.
There's a second question:

I'm not sure what that is asking. I think the ratifying vote was the last General Election, where people voted to "get Brexit done".

I voteRemain and would do so again. The election was not the same as a simple yes/no second referendum as other issues were also being dragged into it - NHS and Universal Credit for instance.

As a nation we have to live with the consequences of Brexit. Compounding this now with COVID, the worst case scenario is now far worse than had been predicted.

Get Brexit Done is a fine slogan. Unfortunately it is not a roadmap, just a vague hand gesture in no particular direction.

To be honest I didn’t add a poll just threw it out for discussion like we used to do in the pub, whatever one of those is.

Given the current state of the Brexit trade negotiations and the shambolic road up to this point, if you voted Yes would you still vote the same way?

Personally my crystal ball seems to have been pretty accurate. After David Cameron’s big gamble - which turned out to be a pair of 3s against the 4 aces of the Brexiteers - to the dawning realisation that our trading arrangements are basically dead in the water was pretty clear from the outset.

Should there have been a ratifying vote to hit the kill switch once the roadmap became clear? Yes, in my opinion as it is our jobs the politicians are gambling with.

Paul.

 

[Cheyne_brewer]

Poll added - for what it’s worth I voted Remain and would do so again if given the chance. Cutting the economic umbilical cord after 40 years is not an easy option whatever the politicians tell us. The combination of Brexit and Covid may prove to be a lethal cocktail for many businesses.

 

[JockyBrewer]

On this thread the only justification for Brexit is I’ve seen so far is that the EU has behaved badly in negotiations.

The EU core principle is giving all it’s members a level playing field. The UK is trying to get an advantage over those members by leaving the EU, so of course they’re going to dig their heels in.

The sad thing is that the UK could have used their position in the EU to drive the way things worked and continued to be a global centre of power. Not any more.

 

[An Ankoù]

On this thread the only justification for Brexit is I’ve seen so far is that the EU has behaved badly in negotiations.

The EU core principle is giving all it’s members a level playing field. The UK is trying to get an advantage over those members by leaving the EU, so of course they’re going to dig their heels in.

The sad thing is that the UK could have used their position in the EU to drive the way things worked and continued to be a global centre of power. Not any more.

You're absolutely spot on. That has been my position all along. Britain's history (or perceived history) has been one of ruling empires and yet when it comes to cosying up to France and Germany, before inveigling our way to top-of-the-table, we haven't even seen that it has been an open goal all along. Pathetic, Britain! Was the job too big to even have a go? Thatcher could have done it perhaps, if she'd been minded to, not that I'm an apologist for thatcher. I'm not.

 

[Appleyard]

I voted Leave because my natural instinct is, wherever possible, to move power closer to the individual and away from centralisation. But, I wasn't overly passionate about it, and went to bed expecting a narrow remain victory.

However, the behaviour of the EU in these negotiations has convinced me that we had a lucky escape, and need to leave properly and crack on with it. So I would vote leave again, and be much more passionate about it.

I hope we are able to strike free trade deals with everyone, everywhere, including the EU, as they are invariably win win for both parties. I fear that may not be possible in the short. Let's hope I'm wrong.

About the same here. I was also interested to see the treatment of Poland and Hungary recently, which amounted to "Yes, you have a veto, but if you use it, you will suffer". I thought that was improper in a democracy.

The next 2½ weeks will be most interesting. I do hope for an agreement, but it's looking sort-of unlikely. Perhaps there will be some sort of fudge to cushion the impact of the end of Transition on both parties.

 

[Appleyard]

Cutting the economic umbilical cord after 40 years is not an easy option whatever the politicians tell us.

We were told that before we voted to leave. Indeed, the referendum leaflet and other material is still easy to find in the National Archives (online). There's Mr Cameron's speech at Chatham House, too. The fact is that we have left. We have been non-members for close to 11 months.

By the way, the eu has only existed since 1993.

 

[Tanglefoot]

The EU core principle is giving all it’s members a level playing field.

Except the euro as common currency has benefited the richer northern member states far more
than their southern neighbours.

It was always a scheme based on political ambition as a means to lead the union to federalisation
rather than on sound economic grounds, a case of putting the cart before the horse.

Germany has built a huge trade surplus whilst the likes of Greece and Italy have had to go cap in hand for
multiple bail outs from an ECB fund which is still being argued over - this was before financial hit of covid.

The cure for this inequality is harmonisation of taxes and debt relief for the struggling southern states,
none to popular in the states which would have to bear the 'haircuts' required.
It illustrates the problem of tying together widely diverse economies, made all the worse by fudging the
rules of admission for the new member states like Greece.

If there had been any indication that the EU might be ready to accept than changes were necessary
back in 2016 then in my view many people who ended up voting to leave could have changed their mind.

Anyhow it's a bit pointless discussing whether you'd vote the same way now as you did in 2016, the world has moved on and outside the bubble of social media it's obvious most people in this country have made their decision
and moved on too.

 

[terrym]

On this thread the only justification for Brexit is I’ve seen so far is that the EU has behaved badly in negotiations.

The EU core principle is giving all it’s members a level playing field. The UK is trying to get an advantage over those members by leaving the EU, so of course they’re going to dig their heels in.

The sad thing is that the UK could have used their position in the EU to drive the way things worked and continued to be a global centre of power. Not any more.

You are absolutely not spot on.
In summary
There were many reasons for Brexit, and most are still there there. For me UK sovereignty was and is one of the main reasons. And the fact that the EU seem to perceive we are still a member and want to punish us for being naughty should come as no surprise, it doesn't to me, I always thought it was going to happen.
The EU core principle may well be a level playing field, but sadly that doesn't work given the diverse political, cultural and economic differences of each of the member states. Plus the major players, France and Germany, seem to wag the dog to their advantage. Strasbourg to satisfy the French anyone?
And we have tried to fit in in the last 20 years and it didn't seem to work. We always seemed to be the odd one out. We tried to negotiate our situation following the Referendum and they basically told us to stuff it.

Many on this forum won't remember the Common Market which was a trade organisation and a predecessor to the EU. De Gaulle kept us out of that, bringing new significance to 'Non!'. So much for European friendliness and cooperation given what had happened a few years earlier. But things changed a generation later and we enthusiastically voted to join the EEC, another trade organisation, and I voted in. But since then the EEC trade organisation has morphed into the United States of Europe with significant and increasing pressure to conform to its rules, laws and regulations, sometimes against the national interest. So I would still vote leave. But if it had still been a trade organisation, we wouldn't be in this situation, but it isn't, so we are.

But at the end of the day, we have left the EU, trade agreement or not, and we are going to find the world is different for other reasons too which have affected the rest of the globe this year, and we will just have to get on with it as we have done before, rather than carping on about the what would have been.

 

[Justin Dean]

Whether the issues are connected is immaterial, don't complain about divisive posts when you're just as guilty of doing it yourself.

Tosh