Would you still vote for Brexit?

[simon12]

The EU has never really just being about trade, right back to when it was first established as the European Steel and Coal, one of the reasons given for it by Robert Schumann (French Foreign Minister) was to ”make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible", with the community estabilishing a common market for coal and steel helping to neutralise competition between its member states over resources.

Today the concept of a war between European powers is pretty much unimaginable but in the fifties it was only a few years after the horrors of the Second World War, (with two major European conflicts being within living memory of much of the population). The point is the EU and it’s predecessor have never being just about free trade.

In defence of the Euro arguably Greece and potentially Italy should not have being allowed to join. But one big advantage is it removes exchange rate volatility within the block.

Amazon and Starbucks would find a ways to avoid tax regardless, tax havens have pretty much existed as long as tax has, you don’t think all those companies are incorporated in the Cayman Islands for the weather do you.

As for red tape the EU has arguably reduced not increased red tape, you are always going to need some degree of regulation and better to have one set to deal with across multiple counties than have to deal with 20+ different regulatory systems. Here is how you currently export to mainland Europe, find customer to buy product, pack product, dispatch via courier of your choice.

Thanks for the reply I never knew about your 1st 2 points as for the others:
"In defence of the Euro arguably Greece and potentially Italy should not have being allowed to join. But one big advantage is it removes exchange rate volatility within the block."
Which is also its problem

"Amazon and Starbucks would find a ways to avoid tax regardless, tax havens have pretty much existed as long as tax has, you don’t think all those companies are incorporated in the Cayman Islands for the weather do you."
They could have a tax on moving money to tax havens. This would likely result in a huge tax revenue increase in Hungary where its lowest in Europe. Anyway its complicated but if it was ever going to be dealt with the EU would be best placed to deal with it.

"As for red tape the EU has arguably reduced not increased red tape, you are always going to need some degree of regulation and better to have one set to deal with across multiple counties than have to deal with 20+ different regulatory systems. Here is how you currently export to mainland Europe, find customer to buy product, pack product, dispatch via courier of your choice."
You make a good point but the problem is all these standards seem to go to the highest with no thought as to do we need this standard to exist at all. And why should the EU even be something that decides how powerful a vacuum cleaner can be.

 

[Justin Dean]

Older people tend to die in greater numbers though, the mortality rate does increase as people get older.

We are all getting older. I believe attitudes change as you get older.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

No, and I've already said earlier in this thread that anyone who who try to skew the result in that way would be ridiculous

I agree but threads like this bring out the worst in people.

A loaded question's a loaded question, and this ain't a loaded question.

As i have just said - Maybe loaded was the wrong word, i assume the OP meant it gives those that wanted to stay the opportunity to make it look like more people have now changed their mind about leaving by voting No.

If you're concerned about deliberate sabotage of the poll why not have the OP add to the question options for those who voted remain to see if any have changed their mind?

There isn't much point in changing it now we are at post #180.

 

[Justin Dean]

I think we have hammered this debate to no conclusion. Unsurprisingly. Time to crack a beer. Cheers all

 

[Furry Shark Brewery]

Only a question about leavers....

I don’t see that at all. It’s a fairly binary Q. Have you changed your mind, yes or no. If it’s all so pointless and unpalatable for you, you can do something else, indeed ignore the post. I’m not a great fan of Hello magazine and similar celebrity obsessed rubbish. Oddly enough I don’t lurk in relevant fora telling them to all get a life.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Oddly enough I don’t lurk in relevant fora telling them to all get a life.

Could you link to a post where JD has said this?

 

[Justin Dean]

More assumption statements.

 

[Rodcx500z]

Keep it going, it gives me an excuse to have a beer and i still don't care

 

[Justin Dean]

I don’t see that at all. It’s a fairly binary Q. Have you changed your mind, yes or no. If it’s all so pointless and unpalatable for you, you can do something else, indeed ignore the post. I’m not a great fan of Hello magazine and similar celebrity obsessed rubbish. Oddly enough I don’t lurk in relevant fora telling them to all get a life.

The question starts if you voted leave etc. Obviously. Maybe if it just said Have you changed your mind

 

[An Ankoù]

In defence of the Euro arguably Greece and potentially Italy should not have being allowed to join. But one big advantage is it removes exchange rate volatility within the block.

Greece should never have been allowed to join the Euro zone, there was some talk at the time of her figures being manipulated to fit the criteria. I seem to remember Goldman Sachs being implicated in this. When the Shi'ite hit the fan , culminating in Greece defaulting on its payments in (I think) 2015, it was never a question of Greece wanting to leave the EU or the Eurozone. Grexit was an unintentional consequence which Greece struggled heroically to avoid. In retrospect, Greece now appears to be a lot fitter and leaner than it was pre-crisis. The point being that the Greek people underwent untold hardship in order to be allowed to stay in the Union.

Here's an excerpt from Inestopedia: Understanding the Downfall of Greece's Economy

While Greece was accepted to the EMU in 2001, it did so under false pretenses as its deficit and debt were nowhere near within the Maastricht limits. In 2004, the Greek government openly admitted that its budget figures had been doctored to meet the entry requirements for the Eurozone's single currency. Greece was hoping that despite its premature entrance, membership to the EMU would boost the economy, allowing the country to deal with its fiscal problems.

 

[Furry Shark Brewery]

Could you link to a post where JD has said this?

I did not say that he did. But the sentiment is clear, as seen in other posts, eg stating that the forum is overly leftist or similar such. This is head shakingingly annoying and, I agree, not a great deal to be had from it. The nation is divided. Clearly. I’m off to do something more productive with my Sunday.

 

[obscure]

"As for red tape the EU has arguably reduced not increased red tape, you are always going to need some degree of regulation and better to have one set to deal with across multiple counties than have to deal with 20+ different regulatory systems. Here is how you currently export to mainland Europe, find customer to buy product, pack product, dispatch via courier of your choice."
You make a good point but the problem is all these standards seem to go to the highest with no thought as to do we need this standard to exist at all. And why should the EU even be something that decides how powerful a vacuum cleaner can be.

The problem with red tape and regulation is it’s a pretty thankless task. It tends to be tedious and industry specific with few caring outside of the industry affected, you see a few headlines about parts that get traction, I.e. vacuum cleaners, post Brexit you are still going to get regulation on a whole range of issues, the problem is when you start to get divergance, what the EU provided was harmonisation one set of regulations across the entire block, you obtain a CE mark in the UK and you can sell your product in Germany, France, Poland etc. Mobile roaming regulations it now costs the same to use my mobile in France as it does in the UK.

 

[Justin Dean]

I believe the UK has the highest ambition to maintain or improve such standards post Brexit.

 

[Roddy J]

Project Fear? What a joke. But you didn't see through the lies of the Leave campaign?

Project Fear was the Yoon parties collaborating to campaign against Scottish Indy. That destroyed Labour in Scotland. I voted Leave UK & Remain EU. Hopefully in 2 years time the vote will be successful to leave UK and then we can re-join the EU at some point.

 

[Justin Dean]

Keep having referendums....

What if again it goes against independence?

 

[samale]

Project Fear was the Yoon parties collaborating to campaign against Scottish Indy. That destroyed Labour in Scotland. I voted Leave UK & Remain EU. Hopefully in 2 years time the vote will be successful to leave UK and then we can re-join the EU at some point.

What is the chance of a second vote on independence

 

[Buffers brewery]

Keep having referendums....

What if again it goes against independence?

Do a Trump and demand a recount

 

[Shiretor]

Project Fear was the Yoon parties collaborating to campaign against Scottish Indy. That destroyed Labour in Scotland. I voted Leave UK & Remain EU. Hopefully in 2 years time the vote will be successful to leave UK and then we can re-join the EU at some point.

I hope you do leave the UK., with my Scottish ancestry I would hope to obtain a Scottish Passport & join with you as an EU citizen.

 

[simon12]

The problem with red tape and regulation is it’s a pretty thankless task. It tends to be tedious and industry specific with few caring outside of the industry affected, you see a few headlines about parts that get traction, I.e. vacuum cleaners, post Brexit you are still going to get regulation on a whole range of issues, the problem is when you start to get divergance, what the EU provided was harmonisation one set of regulations across the entire block, you obtain a CE mark in the UK and you can sell your product in Germany, France, Poland etc. Mobile roaming regulations it now costs the same to use my mobile in France as it does in the UK.

I can see both sides of this and as I said I don't really know enough about it. I can see that it doesn't make sense for every EU country to have different rules on hover power and its against free trade if different goods are allowed in different countries but then what if there made for export outside the EU anyway and I didn't see loads of countries going to the EU saying we need to do something about this problem of high powered vacuum cleaners. Also there are different rules/standards in different countries ie German beer laws and the French bangers I loved as a kid so if countries can have different standards here why do they have to have hoover laws forced on them. I think our government has been as bad on these things but at least then its coming from people we voted for who we can hold to account in stead of unelected people who's jobs in my opinion don't need to exist. To clarify I don't think any EU department should be employing people to decide the maximum power of hoovers or even look for that sort of thing.

 

[Appleyard]

Loaded? How so? Enlighten us folks left of Bannon, Breitbart, Alt R etc.

What are they? I have actually heard of Breitbart, but not the other two. I for one am not extreme.