Why use a bubbler?

[topconker]

Happy days eh.
You can lead a horse to water but you cant force it to drink .

Its all good giving your experience, but if other peoples vary then don't turn it into a p!ssing contest and take insult. It's a friendly forum and lets keep it nice.

Thought I was, my opinions, expressed, I hope in a friendly way.

Frankly I don't give a damn about awards won at shows . . . I brew cause I like my beer and don't give a flying F*ck what other people think of it

No implied bad language expressed by me.
But surely you would like to know how to improve it?

Nothing to do with awards Aleman.
TC

 

[tigertim]

I had the ant problem too, Wez - I think the slight spillage I made down the side of the FV attracted them, so I was most grateful for the airlock

Another valid purpose an airlock serves is a very visible and audible indication of whether the brew is still fermenting. Until the airlock's stopped bubbling, I don't touch my FV at all. Saves me risking infection of the brew by disturbing it if I peep :) May not be a large risk, but no risk is worth taking if it's easily avoided.

 

[tubby_shaw]

Happy days eh.
You can lead a horse to water but you cant force it to drink .

Don't remember The Fonz saying that :wha:
No I think the quote was from Way out west a film by Laurel and Hardy.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Lauel

 

[topconker]

LOL TS,
but I like my interpretation as well.
Sorry if I've disturbed an ants nest here, (no pun intended).
It was just my thoughts on a pretty insignificant issue that I thought might be useful to the forum.
If some of the more established members take umbridge then maybe this is not the place for me.
But honestly, in all my years of brewing, and it is few, I've learnt so much I thought members might be interested.
I have been very successful in competitions, sorry if that rubs a few the wrong way, but that success has meant I have a wealth of knowledge to share, and it seems a pity I cant feel free to share it.
By the way, I've also drunk many pints both good and bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TC

 

[Wez]

All knowledge sharing is welcome here

Thats why i mentioned my ants!



Competition winning is great if thats why you brew (or your most important reason for brewing) - I don't think i'd like the pressure personally, I brew for me.

 

[damfoose]

If I was to brew with out an Air Lock I would be throwing more beer away than drinking due to the amount of vinegar fly's that happen to get into the room I brew in, Reason for this I have a rather small garden and a compost bin same for next door , The 2 compost bins are back to back through the hedge oh lets not forget the small pond next door has which is a fly magnet.

I use air locks ( bubblers ) to keep the bugs out usually half filled with vodka or gin. As for when I move my FV I carefully unscrew the top so their is no pressure diffrence between the inside of the FV and the outside.

But case in point I remember seeing something about using a bubbler makes bad beer ! This I really dont understand bubbler lets the co2 escape and stops nasties getting in. An open FV even one with a slightly opened lid lets the co2 out but it can also let bugs in could even let fungus spores in or other detremental organisms.

Personally I think I will keep brewing my beer my way which by the way requires the use of a bubbler.

 

[topconker]

Thanks damfoose,
Cant argue with your reason about the flies.
Airlocks do not make bad beer, I just question why use them during the initial ferment which in your case there is a well thought out argument.
TC

 

[Wez]

DF has put it across well, I think that anyone who thinks there may be a risk of creepy crawlies has a good argument for using an airlock, throughout the whole fermentation process. :thumb:

 

[tubby_shaw]

The issue that I think you are missing TC is that there are a lot of newbies on this forum. We answer a lot of what do I do now questions. Fermenting under an airlock does no harm whatsoever and if it offers confidence what is the harm? We hope that people will progress and can make their own decisions and pick up on pearls of wisdom, but sowing seeds of doubt with what you describe as "a pretty insignificant issue" surely does not help anyone?
Please feel free to contribute with your positive experiences from your many years experience we relish information that contributes to the increase of good homebrewing :thumb:
If you feel competitions help you improve all power to your elbow :thumb:
Most of us have no interest in competitions at the moment, that is not to say that we will not in the future, but what we do on occasion is a forum brew and we swap beers when we meet and we invite criticism, be it good or bad from our peers. We hope to improve in this way :thumb:

 

[Vossy1]

I love a good 'meaty' type of debate, and here are the findings of the V1 jury
First, I see there as being some confusion over what's being said

Been reading lots of posts where brewers are using a bubbler/airlock to ferment their brews, why?
During the primary fermentation so much co2 gas is given off and it being heavier than air provides a superb barrier to airbourne infections.
Only after this initial fermentation does the level go down which calls for an airlock to be used and then only after the initial racking.
If anyone is doubtful, lift the lid during the fermatation and take a good whiff, when you get off the floor you'll know what I mean. (joking of course, be careful).

You haven't actually said how you ferment TC :hmm:

Know this might sound contentious but it helps for everyone to know good brewing practises and how to produce good sound beers

I'll come back to this as it's directly related to the next two comments, which are

My point is why suggest we should brew under airlock when there is no real need for it.

Airlocks can give as many problems aa they solve, especially when people add unsterilised water into them and it bubbles back.

Good brewing practise is that wherever possible, the ingress of contaminents/spoiling organisms should be avoided/minimised.

I dont say airlocks are not good, just not neccesary, how many time have people gone to look at their beer, (to see how it's going), and ended up inducing aitlock water into their brew as the pressure changed when lifting lid.

I don't think it's fair to criticise a sound system based on human error.

but attention to detail makes the diifference between a good beer and a great beer

Agreed, but if your not capable of lifting the lid of a airlocked beer without inducing the airlock contents into the fv you have bigger problems at hand.

Brewers are being induced into fitting airlocks by the pre-drilled holes

Good point, but the brewer has a choice as to whether to buy that item or not, as you've pointed out.

Back to good brewing practice. Quoting old methods of fermentation is not sound reason as to why we should maintain said practices. Yorkshire squares were predominantly used for the fermentation of ales that were to be consumed quite quickly, and spoiling organisms were not given much chance to get a hold of the beer, within reason.

Fermenting under airlock is a superior method to just cracking the lid slightly open on your fv. If the airlock is maintained with a sterile solution there is no good reason for contaminent ingress, other than by human error which is not a reflection on the 'system'.
There is no measure of opening when cracking a lid partially open, so it is possible that motile organisms could 'infect' the beer.

Personally I've used both systems without problem. I have fallen foul of dragging the airlock contents back into the fv, but luckily for me, I had maintained the airlock properly, so it wasn't a problem.
The suggestion that retailers may be only supplying fv's with drilled lids is simply not true.

At the end of the day it's easier and cheaper, to just crack the lid open slightly, as opposed to the expense of using an airlock...but that should never be confused with 'best practice'.

 

[ano]

edit - probably in breach of forum rules.

If you're competent (and don't draw the solution into your beer etc) I still can't see why you wouldn't. Brewing to me is about bringing the process within my control, leaving it open there's a greater chance of failure (imo).

 

[topconker]

Thanks Vossy, an interesting reply and a lot of sense spoken.
As I said some while ago my thread is purely to provoke discussion which in the main it has.
My comment on good brewing practice is made purely to impress on brewers the need to ensure the beer is kept free from any possibilty of infection, either airbourne or indeed physically, ie. wild life. Whether or not one chooses to use an airlock is a matter of personal choice and it certainly not for me, or indeed anyone else to suggest otherwise whatever their stance on the subject is.
In my brewing process, after boiling I stand on for a period of between 10 to 30 minutes depending on the style of beer or indeed if I'm trying to ensure a good DMS formation on true style continental lagers or just a good hop aroma for ales.
The beer is then turned out through the hop bed which acts as an extremely efficient protein filter into the FV which has the sterilized cooling coil already fitted.
Once the beer is cooled to around 21c I pitch the yeast and fit the lid tightly onto the vessel and just crack open a small area of it to allow the co2 to escape during the primary fermentation.
Once finished, usually after 3 - days I immediately transfer into sterilised demijohns complete with airlocks, (hurray), and allow the green beer to rest and clear.
TC

 

[EskiBrew]

I have never used an airlock when brewing beer (except when making a starter in a milk bottle) and in many years of brewing I have only once found a fly in my fermenter - the contents of which had gone off although whether because of the fly or otherwise was not clear.

If I fermented somewhere that had a lot of mobile bugs then I would think again :

 

[Sean_Mc]

After a good deal of googling some of the terms used, I found this thread very informative.
Very new to brewing, infact just primed my second 40pints. So many thanks for the info to all.