White Labs - Slow start!

[Steveicky]

Recently, I decided to have a go at using a liquid yeast for the first time. Until now I have only used dried yeaset with S04 being my tool of choice.

I had read that for 40L I was going to need two vials of yeast, if I wanted to pitch directly without a starter. With the cost of buying DME for a starter it was not that much more for the second vial, so I took the easy option and purchased the two.

The two vials of WLP002 were brought up to room temperature over sevral hours and then pitched into a well aerated wort of around 1045. The Yeast was well within date, so I expected a fairly rapid start. Over 15 hours later I was hunting through the cupboard for some S04 as there were no sign of any fermentation. To my releif, a couple of hours later a few bubbles started to rise, quickly followed by a proper ferment so the s04 was not required :hmm: . This wort never really acheived a good thick Krausen like I was used to with S04 but it did ferment out well.

This is the level of Krausen that I am used to with S04, which is 3 - 4" thick.

The WLP002 did finish quickly and clear extremely well, leaving a solid yeast cake. To make the yeast more cost effective, I decided to collect the spent yeast slurry for my next brew. The yeast was clean and had little trub, so it was bottled and put in the fridge.

For my next 50L batch of ESB, I just pitched the WLP002 slurry straight in at room temperature. About 1 hour later I happened to pass the fermenter and checked the temperature when I noticed that there was already signs of fermentation. Within 2 hours the fermentation was at "full tilt" :grin: with a thick Krausen, which was a real shock after my first experience using this yeast.

Has anyone else had simililar experience with White Labs yeasts? I guess this yeast is not as directly pitchable as they state and a starter should be made.

 

[Stihler]

I have not had good luck with White Lab's yeast.

Unlike Wyeast's smack-packs there really is no way of knowing the viles of yeast from White Labs contain viable yeast.

If the vials are treated well (i.e. cool stable temperature) in transit and at the homebrew shop the yeast should, in theory, be fine.

However, there is no way of know this is indeed the case before hand without making a starter which sort of defeats the utility of using the liquid yeast.

I generally use the Wyeast Activator smack-packs and have had very good luck with them.

Don't entirely give up on liquid yeast. They have a great deal more variety than is available in dry form at present. Liquid yeast can also produce very good results.

I have only recently (within the last few years) started using dry yeast from time to time. Dry yeast used to be totally unpredictable and generally gave poor results. The products of Danstar and Fermentis have totally changed that. I now keep a few packets of dry yeast on hand for those times when things go wrong (i.e. pitch at too high a temperature, smack-pack takes longer than anticipated to swell etc.).

Please let us know how your beer comes out despite the yeast problems.

- Scott

 

[dennisking]

Personally I always make a starter and never had a slow start.

 

[Good Ed]

You really need to make a starter with White Labs yeast, they have flown half way around the world and you don't know how they have been stored. Yeast needs TLC, so it is best practice to make a starter and they are then fully awake and raring to go.

 

[wilsoa1111]

well ive only used one whitelabs vial and it did me good chugging along in less than 12hrs (i did order from the legendary rob at malt miller like)-besides 24hrs before at full tilt sounds only a wee bit slow tbh-thats how long some yeasts take that arent specially primed and dryed like the stuff in packets- and lets face it -it worked :thumb:
also i have an issue with the wyeast stuff (again only one) cos its in dryed form in the packet -not in suspension- so surely it would save on p+p to leave out the somewhat unnessessary liquid-or at least offer a cheaper version without ALSO they are at risk of activating in transit and dying off before u can use em (like mine did)-but being dryed they do transit better in the warm provided arent wacked too much- not really an issue at this time of year though...

 

[pittsy]

You really need to make a starter with White Labs yeast, they have flown half way around the world and you don't know how they have been stored. Yeast needs TLC, so it is best practice to make a starter and they are then fully awake and raring to go.

what i was gonna say , also 2 vials ? what you could of done is 1 vial and 500g of dme with 8 pints of water (1040) then when fermented (5 to 7 days ) mix well and put intp 12 ish 330ml bottles (water bottles are good ) then 2 days before brew day use 1 330ml bottle (de cant and taste wort to insure not off etc )and 100g of dme for a starter (per 23l ) and pitch the lot . pitching the starter before it has finished fermenting out is good i've read . :thumb: p.s i think whitelabs are great ,

 

[Steveicky]

Seems like using a starter is the is the recommended/best approach. I have never really bothered with the dry yeasts as I have always had such good results by just sprinkling the yeast on top. I guess the liquid yeasts take a little more care.

Although my WLP002 was slow to start, it did ferment well once it got going. When the beer is ready to drink, I will post an update with the results.

 

[Stihler]

also i have an issue with the wyeast stuff (again only one) cos its in dryed form in the packet -not in suspension- so surely it would save on p+p to leave out the somewhat unnessessary liquid....

Your comment got me wondering what is actually inside of a Wyeast smack-pack.

I had one in the refrigerator that has been there for about a year. It was for a weizen which I never got around to making.

In the name of science I cut it apart.

The main pack is filled with sterile wort. Inside there is a second pack containing liquid and yeast in suspension.

The smack-packs do not contain dry yeast.

This is why they can offer such a wide variety of yeast strains. Their strains do not need to survive being freeze-dried.

The reason there are far fewer dry yeast strains available is simply that first and foremost those yeasts most be able to survive the rigors of being freeze-dried and rehydrated. Their flavor contribution is secondary to this. To tell the truth I am impressed with the number of new dry strains that are now available.

I just want to report the results of my smack-pack "autopsy".

- Scott

 

[kev]

I have not had good luck with White Lab's yeast.

Unlike Wyeast's smack-packs there really is no way of knowing the viles of yeast from White Labs contain viable yeast.

If the vials are treated well (i.e. cool stable temperature) in transit and at the homebrew shop the yeast should, in theory, be fine.

However, there is no way of know this is indeed the case before hand without making a starter which sort of defeats the utility of using the liquid yeast.

I generally use the Wyeast Activator smack-packs and have had very good luck with them.

Don't entirely give up on liquid yeast. They have a great deal more variety than is available in dry form at present. Liquid yeast can also produce very good results.

I have only recently (within the last few years) started using dry yeast from time to time. Dry yeast used to be totally unpredictable and generally gave poor results. The products of Danstar and Fermentis have totally changed that. I now keep a few packets of dry yeast on hand for those times when things go wrong (i.e. pitch at too high a temperature, smack-pack takes longer than anticipated to swell etc.).

Please let us know how your beer comes out despite the yeast problems.

- Scott

This is the EXACT opposite of my experiences. I've never (and I mean NEVER) had a Wyeast packet work as per the instructions.

White Labs all the way for me.

K