Where to buy Star San

[Binkei Huckaback]

Something to do with not being able to get hold of the ingredients.

Can you cite your sources? Which ingredients? Phosphoric acid? If so, I'm sure Cocal Cola would love to know. They use LOADS! Or is it dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid which is found in toothpaste and many other personal care products?

Also, you mentioned not being able to leave unbiased reviews. What do you want to review? Where do you want to review it?

 

[Clint]

As for mls/oz....for measuring my chemsan out I use one of those kids double medicine spoons...5ml/2.5ml.

 

[Mayor of Simpleton]

I use Starsan and Chemsan interchangeably. You do need to be careful with the dosing difference though. I used Chemsan too dilute on my last brew. Thankfully I got away with it.

 

[Brew_DD2]

This thread turned weird very quickly. Bizarre.

 

[Galena]

This thread turned weird very quickly. Bizarre.

It did indeed

 

[Bobmac1959]

I bottle my Ales, and use Milton Sterilising Tablets. I get them off Amazon, they are very good value @ £6.50 for 3 boxes of 28 Tabs. It is rinse free and safe. So far (touch wood) i have had no issues.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

I bottle my Ales, and use Milton Sterilising Tablets. I get them off Amazon, they are very good value @ £6.50 for 3 boxes of 28 Tabs. It is rinse free and safe. So far (touch wood) i have had no issues.

I think I paid about £30 for just under a litte of StarSan. Using 1.6ml per litre of water (plus something to measure ph levels with) is even cheaper.

 

[clib]

I had a spell of using Starsan and had a series of infections. Returned to trusty old household bleach, 30p for 2 litres, problem solved!

I honestly think Starsan is a gimmick. An expensive one. The guy who invented it said that bleach is the gold standard that all other sanitisers are judged by. I heard him say it.

Starsan doesn't kill wild yeast. Which surely begs the question, why use it? People say they use Starsan and have never had an infection. I've come across people who use no sanitiser who say the same. Infections aren't inevitable.

 

[Oddersocks]

Don’t you have to rinse the bleach? I thought that the point of starsan/Chemsan was that it was no rinse.

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

According to Charlie Talley of manufacturer Five Star chemicals, at the correct concentration, bleach can be used as a no rinse sanitiser.

 

[clib]

Don’t you have to rinse the bleach? I thought that the point of starsan/Chemsan was that it was no rinse.

https://beerliever.com/bleach-no-rinse-sanitiser-home-brewing-beer/

 

[Oddersocks]

https://beerliever.com/bleach-no-rinse-sanitiser-home-brewing-beer/

Brilliant, thanks!

 

[Binkei Huckaback]

Don’t you have to rinse the bleach? I thought that the point of starsan/Chemsan was that it was no rinse.

From a couple of interviews with Charlie Talley I've listened to, the point of StarSan (other than not having to mix bleach, water and vinegar, which can be dangerous if not done correctly) is that it is also a detergent (hence the foam), so that if your cleaning isn't 100%, it will help to shift organic deposits, where as bleach/water/vinegar mix won't.

Also, once the ph level reaches a certain level after use, it's good for your roses.

 

[clib]

But there are other things that clean well and cost a lot less. And if Starsan fails to kill wild yeast it isn't really fit for purpose surely? It doesn't kill mold either.

"It does not matter how well one cleans when the microbe is yeast or mold. Star San cannot kill these microorganisms due to its mode of action. Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid (the active ingredient in Star San) kills via attraction to positively charged cells (hence, the anionic part of acid-anionic). Once inside of a bacteria cell, the surfactant goes about wreaking havoc on cellular function. Yeast and mold cells are negatively charged; therefore, Star San is not effective against these organisms."

Mixing bleach and vinegar is perfectly safe if you add them to water, and not directly to each other.

 

[Rakey]

Something to do with not being able to get hold of the ingredients. Not sure of the details? Like I say time will tell.

Please carry on buying it and posting the best price for us all because I’m sure we’ll all be interested.

It is not getting phased out and there is no shortage of the ingredients. Just had a pallet of it arrive from the US the other week and I'll be putting in another order soon with them.

 

[Bill_g]

Starsan doesn't kill wild yeast.
[/QUOTE]
What is your source for this assertion? Please give a reference or link to the article/info.

 

[clib]

Starsan doesn't kill wild yeast.

What is your source for this assertion? Please give a reference or link to the article/info.
[/QUOTE]
I read it in a variety of places a few years ago when I was using Starsan and getting infections. I switched back to a bleach solution and the problem was solved. So my main reason for believing it is my own personal experience, but it appeared to be backed up by stuff I read. I was not sure whether it was wild yeast or airborne mold spores that was infecting my beers, or both. I wouldn't go back to it personally, the solution I use now is much more effective for my purposes and costs next to nothing.

 

[Bill_g]

What is your source for this assertion? Please give a reference or link to the article/info.

I read it in a variety of places a few years ago when I was using Starsan and getting infections. I switched back to a bleach solution and the problem was solved. So my main reason for believing it is my own personal experience, but it appeared to be backed up by stuff I read. I was not sure whether it was wild yeast or airborne mold spores that was infecting my beers, or both. I wouldn't go back to it personally, the solution I use now is much more effective for my purposes and costs next to nothing.
[/QUOTE]
This is something that irritates the hell out of me about this forum. When total ******** is promulgated it must make it very difficult for beginners to come to an informed view. As far as I am concerned chapter and verse about using bleach as a no rinse sanitiser can be found by listening to this podcast with Charlie Talley. He also states specifically that used correctly StarSan kills wild yeasts, moulds and spores. However he makes it clear that the key to sanitisation is cleaning and sanitisation is the final 'insurance policy' i.e. if you are having problems scrub harder & better.
Low concentration bleach alone is not an effective sanitiser. The pH must be lowered by the addition of white vinegar. The dilution rate is 1oz of new cheap bleach to 5 US gallons, following this dilution add 1 oz of white vinegar. Do not add vinegar to bleach, it will gas.
There were some tests done by Russion home brewers on different sanitisation products including StarSan mentioned here, but the tests and results were largely discredited as invalid if you read following posts.
The myth regarding the charge on yeasts versus microbes is busted here.

 

[clib]

I read it in a variety of places a few years ago when I was using Starsan and getting infections. I switched back to a bleach solution and the problem was solved. So my main reason for believing it is my own personal experience, but it appeared to be backed up by stuff I read. I was not sure whether it was wild yeast or airborne mold spores that was infecting my beers, or both. I wouldn't go back to it personally, the solution I use now is much more effective for my purposes and costs next to nothing.

This is something that irritates the hell out of me about this forum. When total ******** is promulgated it must make it very difficult for beginners to come to an informed view. As far as I am concerned chapter and verse about using bleach as a no rinse sanitiser can be found by listening to this podcast with Charlie Talley. He also states specifically that used correctly StarSan kills wild yeasts, moulds and spores. However he makes it clear that the key to sanitisation is cleaning and sanitisation is the final 'insurance policy' i.e. if you are having problems scrub harder & better.
Low concentration bleach alone is not an effective sanitiser. The pH must be lowered by the addition of white vinegar. The dilution rate is 1oz of new cheap bleach to 5 US gallons, following this dilution add 1 oz of white vinegar. Do not add vinegar to bleach, it will gas.
There were some tests done by Russion home brewers on different sanitisation products including StarSan mentioned here, but the tests and results were largely discredited as invalid if you read following posts.
The myth regarding the charge on yeasts versus microbes is busted here.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks. There's not really a need for that attitude however.

I had those problems a few years back and looked into it at that time, finding indications that Starsan doesn't kill bleach and mold, and I found explanations as to why. I listened to that podcast. He calls chlorine bleach the gold standard in it. The internet is riddled with untruth, half truth and truth, we all fall foul if it. Real life is the same, people get things wrong, unwittingly. Get used to it.

And use your own experiences. From my own experience, Starsan let me down and bleach/vinegar sorted me out instantly. I know how to clean equipment, and I followed instructions carefully. People have different experiences and reach different conclusions. My conclusion was and is that bleach/vinegar/water is much cheaper than Starsan, and much more effective in my situation.

PS you ballsed up quoting me so that it looks like I said something I didn't. That's the interwebs for you. Tread carefully.

 

[Bill_g]

@clib - ok sorry just venting some frustration, I'll accept unfairly. As I have a science & engineering background I put little weight on personal views unless well supported by evidence which I can assess & evaluate for myself. As you correctly point out one needs a pretty powerful mental junk filter when using the internet. However if used in the way intended and against the normal level of contamination left by good cleaning practices I can find no support for the assertion that no rinse sanitisers such as ChemSan or StarSan do not kill wild yeasts. It is as far as I can assertain an incorrect and what's worse a misleading statementf.