Weak beer

[tonight_we_fly]

Hello everyone. After receiving some helpful responses to my previous questions, I thought I'd come on to see whether anybody can offer any advice on the latest...

When I started out at the beginning of the year, I had a plan in mind. I was going to start out with the basic kits, move on to the two-can kits before then attempting all grain brewing. However, I'm reluctant to move on to AG until I can figure out why all my beers are turning out so much weaker than expected?

The first brew was a straight Bavarian lager kit. I followed the recipe to the letter, apart from one deviation in that I rehydrated the yeast before pitching it (taking the advice from the "How to Brew" book by Palmer). Unfortunately I didn't know the ABV (because I didn't realise until I was about to bottle that I actually should have taken a hydrometer reading before fermentation as well), but I got the impression that it was weaker than the 4.5% which the package suggested. Well, it tasted weaker than that, and people certainly weren't falling over after a few bottles.

For my second attempt I made a wheat beer and added some personalisations (a bit of curacao peel and crushed coriander within a muslin bag in the boil water), but other than that kept strictly to the instructions and measurements (again with rehydrated yeast). I was disappointed that whereas the packaging suggested 4.8% ABV, the final product scraped in at just under 4%.

Next I moved on to the two can kit, and this is where things seem to be really falling short. My latest is a porter, and admittedly I did put some extra chocolate malt in some of the hot water (in addition to the boil water - the malted water was only heated to about 65-70 degrees for half an hour) as I was going for an end product as dark as possible. However, in all other ways I followed the instructions, which seemed to specify that no additional sugar of any kind needed to be added to this recipe.

Well, I'm not sure whether I should have taken the instructions not to add sugar with a pinch of, er salt... But there seems to have been a massive drop in strength now. The packaging suggested that 4.5% should be the ABV, whereas at bottling my readings have come in at 3.1%.

I appreciate that it's very difficult to asses what's going wrong here just from the basic facts that I've laid out, but it does seem to me that something is not right, as the beers are getting weaker, despite the fact that I follow the instructions with painstaking accuracy. But I was wondering whether there are any general explanations which are most likely to be the cause of this kind of problem?

Perhaps I should add that in all cases I left the primary fermentation to run for 10-12 days. Everything's fully sanitised (and air-tight, with a water bubble airlock), the vessel is left in a cupboard under the stairs completely shielded from any light and the temperature seems to have been ticking over at around 22 degrees in there.

I have another two-can kit (IPA) ready to go, and so according to the plan, now would be the time that I start ordering the materials in for my first all grain brew to follow this. But if things aren't going right with the kits, I'm a bit reluctant to do this until I can figure out what the problem is. Any ideas?

 

[RobWalker]

What is more than likely wrong is a lack of mixing. I've found on occasion that no matter how much you mix, your gravity readings are still inaccurate, and it's not worth aerating and mixing that much when you're topping up with cold water because it increases the risk of infection. The reality of this situation is that, well, I don't think anything's actually wrong.

With kit and extract brewing there's no reason whatsoever that the sugars arn't in there, unlike all grain brewing where your mashing efficiency determines the ABV. If they ferment out, then just go with your calculations, because they are 98% going to be the real readings.

If you do want your mates falling over, add some beer enhancer, it will up the ABV without affecting the body or bitterness. Or make some turbo cider.

 

[ChrisRedWills]

Hi twf


I've had the same problems my solution was to reduce the water content from say 23ltrs down to 21 ltrs & you could also add 500g of spray malt which will add mouth feel to your beer as well adding a bit more strength
good luck :

 

[alanywiseman.]

Are you adding 23L of water or filling to 23L?

Do you oxygenate the wort before pitching the yeast?

A few of my brews have taken up to 3 weeks, what are the OG and FG readings you are getting?

Finally is your FV sitting on a concrete floor or something like that? Concrete floors dissipate the heat so cause yeast to drop out of suspension and stop fermenting. Dont know if this would make a difference though.

 

[Pearlfisher]

Have you considered the Brewferm kits? , I haven't tried them myself as I'm not keen on strong ales.

Alternatively I've done the Better Brew IPA 2.3kg kit plus a tin of 1.5kg Coopers light malt extract which comes out just over 5% and is a lovely ale.

 

[tonight_we_fly]

Thanks for some very helpful responses there.

The concrete floor comment sounds very convincing. I do in fact have the fermenting vessel sat directly on a concrete floor surface. There always seems to be a large amount of sludge lining the bottom of the vessel when I go to siphon it out after the primary fermentation; I'd assumed this was normal, but I don't know if perhaps this means the yeast is dropping out of supension as suggested above? Maybe I should try putting some old blankets or something underneath the next time?

In terms of the other specifications I am filling the vessel to the 23 litre mark, I do stir around the wort before pitching the yeast (although perhaps I need to stir it up a little bit more) and on my latest brew cited the OG was 1.040 and FG 1.017. They've all tended to foam up on top about 24 hours after pitching, which has then died down by a day or two later; and by the time I bottled the recent batch (after 10 days), although there was occasional activity through the airlock, it was only bubbling about once every 15-30 minutes.

I'm not really familiar with beer enhancer or spraymalt (as I've largely been following the instructions in the kits, which doesn't mention them), but in response to some of the suggestions here I'm going to look into them further. Thanks! Those Brewferm kits look very interesting by the way, thanks for that suggestion as well, I think I'll also give one of those a try before too long.

I'm also going to take heart from Rob's suggestion that I'm more than likely not doing anything drastically wrong, but make sure I mix everything more vigorously next time!

 

[Vossy1]

but make sure I mix everything more vigorously next time!

Try using a plaster paddle and a drill to mix :thumb:
The paddles are quite cheap and most folk have a drill, if you don't just ignore the above :grin:

 

[tonight_we_fly]

but make sure I mix everything more vigorously next time!

Try using a plaster paddle and a drill to mix :thumb:
The paddles are quite cheap and most folk have a drill, if you don't just ignore the above :grin:

Ha ha, that sounds either completely insane or else total genius! You know what; I might just give it a go...

 

[Vossy1]

A few folk use em...have a look here :thumb:

 

[Buzzing]

A FG of 1.017 seems quite high.

My first brew also ended up with a FG of 1.016. I attribute this to my blindly following Palmer's instructions to boil (even a kit) until the hot break occurs, and his definition of hot break is not in line with that of the rest of world either.

I think I initially caramalised alot of sugars and changed them into complex molecules to such an extent that the yeasties could not ferment them and thus the remained and increased the FG.

Has the FG of 1.017 been constant for 2/3 days ?
Could you be caramalising some of your sugars in the boil ?

 

[Dave1970]

I wouldn't let this stop you going over to AG. Most of the things suggested here are kit brewing based problems (apart from the cold concrete floor - a bit of camping mat under the FV would sort that). It may be that going AG is the solution to your problem.

I'd also be getting a second hydrometer just to check you're getting the right readings...you're bound to break one and need a spare at some point anyway

 

[tonight_we_fly]

A FG of 1.017 seems quite high.

My first brew also ended up with a FG of 1.016. I attribute this to my blindly following Palmer's instructions to boil (even a kit) until the hot break occurs, and his definition of hot break is not in line with that of the rest of world either.

I think I initially caramalised alot of sugars and changed them into complex molecules to such an extent that the yeasties could not ferment them and thus the remained and increased the FG.

Has the FG of 1.017 been constant for 2/3 days ?
Could you be caramalising some of your sugars in the boil ?

Thanks for the comments. To be honest I don't really know about the sugars, I'm still a bit too new to this game to be able to confidently interpret precisely what's going on with them! But the FG does indeed seem to be settled and wasn't getting any lower by the time I bottled up, so I'm definitely not getting as much fermentation there as I'd like.

It's really helpful to have received so many suggestions in response to my question, especially when I presented such a generic problem which must have been very difficult to analyse without more direct investigation into what's actually going on. Thanks for all of your helpful responses everyone!

 

[tonight_we_fly]

I wouldn't let this stop you going over to AG. Most of the things suggested here are kit brewing based problems (apart from the cold concrete floor - a bit of camping mat under the FV would sort that). It may be that going AG is the solution to your problem.

I'd also be getting a second hydrometer just to check you're getting the right readings...you're bound to break one and need a spare at some point anyway

Ha ha, with a certain irony I'm going camping next weekend, and I wouldn't dream of sleeping on a concrete floor, and so your comment about putting a camping mat under the fermenting vessel is particularly poignant!

Also seeing as a new hydrometer probably wouldn't cost much more than about a fiver, that sounds like a sensible move as well. Thanks for the encouraging comments Dave!

 

[alanywiseman.]

I agree with Buzzing, 1.017 is high for a FG. Have you ever given your brews a stir towards the end?

It seemsd to me that you are getting a stuck fermentation due to the FV being on a concrete floor. EIther do as you say and insulate them from the ground or give them a stir when the start to stick. You really want a FG below 1.014 unless you are brewing a high strenght brew :thumb:

 

[lovelldr]

Just to add my suggestions to this...

My first thought was same as everyone else suggested ... maybe you are not stirring it up enough. So, that's one thing to try and make sure you for the next brew :thumb:

Next thing, you saying it's on a concrete floor would also cause it to end higher, so would definitely get that camping mat underneath it...

Finally though, have you taken temperature readings of the brew when you take your hydrometer readings?! Most hydrometers are calibrated for 20'c, so when you take your reading, you need to try and ensure that the temp of the beer is at 20'c as well... Higher or lower, and the hydrometer reading will either be higher than real, or lower than real...

 

[tonight_we_fly]

Just to add my suggestions to this...

My first thought was same as everyone else suggested ... maybe you are not stirring it up enough. So, that's one thing to try and make sure you for the next brew :thumb:

Next thing, you saying it's on a concrete floor would also cause it to end higher, so would definitely get that camping mat underneath it...

Finally though, have you taken temperature readings of the brew when you take your hydrometer readings?! Most hydrometers are calibrated for 20'c, so when you take your reading, you need to try and ensure that the temp of the beer is at 20'c as well... Higher or lower, and the hydrometer reading will either be higher than real, or lower than real...

Ah, thanks for that. Those were in fact temperature-adjusted values rather than just straight readings, but thanks for pointing that out.

Feelings seem to be pretty universal about the stirring and the concrete floor, so I think I've definitely identified a change to make for next time.

Thanks!

 

[tonight_we_fly]

I just wanted to come back and thank everybody that gave helpful advice when I posted this question a few weeks back. I took just about everything on board, and it seems to have worked.

I stirred the wort a lot more vigorously this time around; I did try using a paint paddle at first but it seemed to keep falling out of my drill, so I ended up just stirring it violently like a nutter for five minutes instead. I put some old bedclothes on the floor under the fermenting vessel, and then at the point where I would previously have bottled (after ten days) instead I gave it a generous stir, and then left it for another four days before bottling.

The result has turned out to be an ABV of 5.2%, which is substantially higher then the brews which were all falling short in the past. So many thanks to everyone for your help!

 

[Davybarman]

Glad to here it worked out!!
:

 

[Hollow Legs]

Hi TWF,

I have recently discovered a beer enzyme that can be used for stuck fermentations, although I use them in my Pilsners as they turn more fermentables into alcohol.

I have just bottled a Muntons pilsner SG 1.046 FG 1.002 giving 5.8% ABV , although I never use the kit yeast always Saflager S-23.

I have recently started AG brewing and although not easy, it is easier than I thought. I bottled my third lager Saturday just gone.

Good luck and happy brewing

:

 

[tonight_we_fly]

Hi TWF,

I have recently discovered a beer enzyme that can be used for stuck fermentations, although I use them in my Pilsners as they turn more fermentables into alcohol.

I have just bottled a Muntons pilsner SG 1.046 FG 1.002 giving 5.8% ABV , although I never use the kit yeast always Saflager S-23.

I have recently started AG brewing and although not easy, it is easier than I thought. I bottled my third lager Saturday just gone.

Good luck and happy brewing

:

Ah, thanks for the encouragement and helpful comments!