Water problems in Crawley

[Neil Hoey]

I've been brewing real ale from Crystal malt, malt extract, hops etc for over thirty years in Crawley. I thought I knew what I was doing.

In July, I had my first failed brew ever. The beer came out muddy and tasting off. I sterilised everything, did another brew, and got the same result.

I then purchased a complete set of new ingredients at £250, sterilised and started again. Still, I got the same result.

I have logged temperature during fermentation and settling, and it has never gone over 21C.

Does anyone out there have a similar issue?

The only thing that is unchanged is the water.

I have just contacted Southern Water for comment, but am not hopeful of getting a reply

Anyone who helps is welcome to join me for a beer or six when the problem is sorted!

 

[MashBag]

Can you give us a bit more than 'muddy & tasting off"

Darker than it should have been?
Or just not clear?
Smells of....?
Tastes of......?

The recipe & a description of your kit will help.

Sounds like a big ask, but I am resonably sure we can sort this for you.. Just need a bit more to work with.

 

[Neil Hoey]

I have just found your reply. Sorry. I did not know how this website worked!

The brew was very cloudy and darker than normal. The taste was a bit caramel with a bit of antiseptic. I did not smell anything concerning. It was not absolutely disgusting, but I would not be happy drinking it

I tasted the brew directly from the fermentation bin before syphoning into a barrel. It tasted very similar to previous brews that had settled.

So the only items the brew had touched were the plastic mash bin and the fermentation bin. As I had mashed at 70C, I was confident that the mash bin was bacteria free. The fermentation bin is very old, so even though I use VWP steriliser on it every time, I bought a new one.

I now have yet another one on the go.

I'm happy to provide any more info or photos if you think it would help.

I really would like to get this sorted as I now have a new tap room and want to have a brewery warming party!

 

[Agentgonzo]

The taste was a bit caramel with a bit of antiseptic.

I assume it's the antiseptic that is the issue rather than the caramel.

Water companies can change how they add chlorine/chloramine to the water to disinfect it. If the chlorine persists to the boil, it can react with the phenols from the hops to give you chlorophenols, like trichlorophenol (TCP). That would certainly account for the antiseptic flavour. Maybe your water supplier has changed how they treat the water.

The normal approach is too treat your brewing water return campden tablets. I'm fortunate in that I don't have to do this but they're are plenty of people on here who do that who can tell you how much to use (or a quick Google search will give you the info)

 

[Sadfield]

The fermentation bin is very old, so even though I use VWP steriliser on it every time, I bought a new one.

I now have yet another one on the go.

Have you had the same issue from the new fermentation vessel? I'd not be surprised if that solved this issue.

I'd bottle half the next batch if it tastes OK from the fermenter. That would potentially eliminate the barrel as a problem. Is it a plastic pressure barrel?

A brew using Tesco Ashbeck bottled water would be a good way to rule out tap water as an issue.

 

[Neil Hoey]

I assume it's the antiseptic that is the issue rather than the caramel.

Water companies can change how they add chlorine/chloramine to the water to disinfect it. If the chlorine persists to the boil, it can react with the phenols from the hops to give you chlorophenols, like trichlorophenol (TCP). That would certainly account for the antiseptic flavour. Maybe your water supplier has changed how they treat the water.

The normal approach is too treat your brewing water return campden tablets. I'm fortunate in that I don't have to do this but they're are plenty of people on here who do that who can tell you how much to use (or a quick Google search will give you the info)

The presence of chlorine is not something that I had considered, so thank you for alerting me to this. Last week, I contacted Southern Water to ask if there were any problems with the water in my area. They sent me a water quality report from 2023, and said if I have a problem to leave my water in a jug in the fridge overnight. Having read what is in the VWP steriliser I use, I think that there is a possibility that I could have added to the problem!

I read that mashing will probably eliminate chlorine, but I do sparge with tap water.

If my next brew fails, I will use Campden tablets in the mash bin, mash a full five gallons and drain to my fermentation bin without sparging.

One further question: could the presence of chlorine, and the consequent chemistry, result in the murky nature of my failed brew? One thing that I did not mention is that I add Irish moss fifteen minutes before the end and secondary hops five minutes before the end.

Although it is probably not relevant to this discussion as the brew has not progressed to that phase, I do have a well proven barrelled system. I have two cider and two bitter barrels. They are mutually coupled by gas pipes that deliver carbon dioxide at a low pressure to ensure the brews do not oxidise. It has been a fantastic system over the years and has never failed me,

Your recommendation for Campden tablets is most welcome. I have just placed an eBay order.

 

[Neil Hoey]

Have you had the same issue from the new fermentation vessel? I'd not be surprised if that solved this issue.

I'd bottle half the next batch if it tastes OK from the fermenter. That would potentially eliminate the barrel as a problem. Is it a plastic pressure barrel?

A brew using Tesco Ashbeck bottled water would be a good way to rule out tap water as an issue.

 

[Agentgonzo]

Having read what is in the VWP steriliser I use, I think that there is a possibility that I could have added to the problem!

Provided you've thoroughly rinsed the VWP it should be fine. But if it's not rinsed off properly, then yes, it'll have a similar effect as it's a chlorine based sanitiser

 

[Neil Hoey]

My brew will be ready for tasting from the fermenter on Saturday. I am new to this site, and I'm not sure if you can see other people's comments. Another member has alerted me to the problems of chlorine in my brew. I am now exploring options to address this.

Although it is probably not relevant to this discussion as the brew has not progressed to that phase, I do have a well proven barrelled system. I have two cider and two bitter barrels. They are mutually coupled by gas pipes that deliver carbon dioxide at a low pressure to ensure the brews do not oxidise. It has been a fantastic system over the years and has never failed me,

 

[Sadfield]

My brew will be ready for tasting from the fermenter on Saturday. I am new to this site, and I'm not sure if you can see other people's comments. Another member has alerted me to the problems of chlorine in my brew. I am now exploring options to address this.

Yes, everything is visible to all.

It's always good practice to remove Chlorine/Chloramine from water, it can potentially cause a medicinal taste. It isn't something that typically causes a change in appearance though.

Old plastic is a common problem, especially in pressure vessels that expand and contract slightly, allowing small cracks, scratches that can harbour unwanted microbes.

Fingers crossed for Saturday.

 

[Neil Hoey]

Thank you all for your help and good wishes for Saturday. I am truly impressed with this website and the informed and helpful people who contribute.

I will post my results after a very nerve-wracking tasting.

I am, of course, open to any other comments and suggestions

 

[Neil Hoey]

I am delighted to report that this morning I tasted the brew from the fermenter, and it tastes great! Even before settling in secondary fermentation, it was pretty clear and is a good, rich colour.

This afternoon I thoroughly sterilised and cleaned a barrel, filled it and added it to my low pressure carbon dioxide system to clear.

The conclusion is therefore clear: the problem was that the old fermenter had retained bad yeast or bacteria that had completely ruined successive brews, despite sterilisation with VWP.

Clearly I will need to do some extensive quality assurance on Friday, but I am now very hopeful that all is sorted.

The moral of the story is that if your fermentation bin is looking old and stained, buy a new one.

Thanks to all of you who provided input and good wishes on this forum.