Water prepping before all grain brew advice needed please

[fximpact25]

hi all im new too this all grain ive really just been playing around with 5l kits and using the stove pan so after really enjoying this ive took the plunge and gone out and got myself a brewzilla gen 3 and a fermzilla .
I have also got myself an all grain kit just to start with it says make 23L its the true to style summer dry hopped saison all grain .
before I start this im wondering several things , how much water too start the mash with then how much for the sparging but the main question is im really clueless on how too change the tap water I really don't understand these online calculators , ive got info from local water supply to see my water profile and ill add pic here but any advice would be great full as I would like to have a go in few days thanks ste.

 

[Rwilts]

Best advice, get Brewfather (free version will be fine). Put in all your info and it tells you all the answers your looking for

hi all im new too this all grain ive really just been playing around with 5l kits and using the stove pan so after really enjoying this ive took the plunge and gone out and got myself a brewzilla gen 3 and a fermzilla .
I have also got myself an all grain kit just to start with it says make 23L its the true to style summer dry hopped saison all grain .
before I start this im wondering several things , how much water too start the mash with then how much for the sparging but the main question is im really clueless on how too change the tap water I really don't understand these online calculators , ive got info from local water supply to see my water profile and ill add pic here but any advice would be great full as I would like to have a go in few days thanks ste.

 

[Sadfield]

Just needs a teaspoon of gypsum to get the calcium above 50ppm. The sulphate it adds, and your waters bicarbonate will be perfect for accentuating the hops and dryness of a saison.

Calcium​

Calcium is extremely important for brewing water. It offers very little in the way of flavour contribution, but it is vital for:

• Increasing mash acidity (if you brew with very alkaline water)
• Assisting with enzyme activity
• Extracting hop bitterness
• Reducing haze
• Decreasing wort colour.

Calcium is usually added as calcium sulphate (gypsum) or calcium chloride. Calcium carbonate (chalk) used to be the most common addition. This is no longer the case as calcium carbonate is not very soluble in water and has little effect in comparison to gypsum and calcium chloride

 

[peebee]

Can't resist sticking that one through me "Defuddler" (download full version from signature below). I've seen those "Brewers Information" snips before ... they are pretty handy:

That's your snip's values. The "Defuddler" wasn't needed to calculate anything, just takes the ("average") values as is. I've added 3ppm "Nitrates" as a guess but it's only for "balancing" and there is always some nitrate (gets balance within 5%, but it was within 10% anyway and the balancing was just being farty and quite unnecessary).

Notice I didn't add the "Calcium Carbonate" figure. They put that in to confuse you (there's no calcium carbonate!), it's the old fashioned "Total Hardness" figure (but them seem too embarressed to tell you that) and is no help to you at all. Actually, the "Defuddler" spreadsheet creates a "Hardness" value from the other stuff and pops it in the "Foetid Mire" (repostitory for useless information - the calculated "Hardness" is 98.63ppm CaCO3 against the published 98.74ppm ... and if all that sounds "fuddling", it's meant to be, that's why it's hidden in the "Foetid mire"!).

Now take @Rwilts advice and use those six figures in Brewfather or something like it and it'll tell you what best to do. If you are asked for anything else (flippin' "Hardness" or "CaCO3"), ignore it. If it gets persistant with its asked, dump it and find a better calculator! And your water looks pretty good* as it is for paler beers.


[EDIT: *A bit more Calcium, 50-100ppm Calcium would be low and Calcium is useful for beer brewing. Calcium Chloride looks like a good addition for you.]

 

[fximpact25]

great thank you so in brewfarther do I goto profile then water then input mine in source

 

[Rwilts]

 

[fximpact25]

this look right

 

[Rwilts]

So you have amended the default(source) to your figures? If so yes. As it's stared it will be the one used by brewfather to make water adjustments suggestions.

 

[peebee]

this look right

No! The values you've put in are not your source figures. Where have you got them from?

 

[Rwilts]

Well I didn't cross check their actual figures

 

[fximpact25]

right im slowly getting there haha so ive input my own water as default now then equipment added my brewzilla .
ive then gone to recipe and input the recipe I have as close as I can and this is what it tells me.
so does this mean for the mash liquid only I add the gypsum 3.48g etc

 

[Rwilts]

Homebrew network (Australian on YouTube) has excellent guides to brewfather. Not avoiding the questions but the answers will prompt more .

But basicky you decide if your water additions are in the mash only or also whilst sparging. I go for mash only so all additions happen at once.

The PH value in red means it's to high for the style. If you have it lactic acid will correct that

And yes. I add all the additions to my mash water prior to adding grains.

 

[peebee]

Well I didn't cross check their actual figures

I gathered that. All that "If so" and question marks". But what is @fximpact25 up to. He's posted another ... I'll have a look...

​

 

[peebee]

@fximpact25: Is this your water?

It's not what you originally posted.

 

[fximpact25]

@fximpact25: Is this your water?

View attachment 91441

It's not what you originally posted.

View attachment 91442

I input all the averages from grey pic ye

 

[peebee]

Hang on, I've just seen what you've done:

Your HCO3 figure is 52.99 (53). They've described as "alkalinity". Ignore that, in our case "alkalinity" is bicarbonate! What you've put in is that (damn it to hell) "calcium carbonate" figure (98.74) which I did say was an imaginary figure. Get used to it, there is NO "calcium carbonate" in your water!!!

 

[peebee]

Quick explanation of what they are doing:

Look at the bottom left of the snip of my "Defuddler" spreadsheet. There are two greyed-out figures for Calcium and Magnesium. They've been converted to "as CaCO3" values: 88.62 and 10.01. Add them together ... 98.63. Wow! That's almost identical to that "calcium carbonate" figure!

Read the narrative of my "Defuddler" for more explanation. If it doesn't make sense and seems completely stupid ... you just learnt the most important lesson: Those figures (it's all "Hardness") are completely stupid!

 

[fximpact25]

Hang on, I've just seen what you've done:

Your HCO3 figure is 52.99 (53). They've described as "alkalinity". Ignore that, in our case "alkalinity" is bicarbonate! What you've put in is that (damn it to hell) "calcium carbonate" figure (98.74) which I did say was an imaginary figure. Get used to it, there is NO "calcium carbonate" in your water!!!

Im not understanding fully what your saying so HCO3 ive input 98.74 i should actually input 52.99 instead .

 

[peebee]

Yes! Going back to your original table:

Those lines not coloured are fine, enter them as is (Chloride, Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium and Sulphate). They are measured in milligrams of ion per Litre of pure water ("mg/l"). At these low cocentrations in water it's the same as measuring them in Parts-per-million ("ppm").

The two coloured lines are different, but do use the same measuring technique. They are measuring "something" or "somethings" as if it is (or they are) "something else", or aka "equivalents". So the yellow line measures "alkalinity" as milligrams per litre of bicarbonate ions (HCO3-), whether the stuff being measured is bicarbonate or something else. The red line ... you aren't told this, you have to know it (or make a good guess!) ... measures "hardness" as milligrams per litre of (virtually insoluble) calcium carbonate rock (CaCO3), whether the stuff being measured is calcium carbonate rock or something else. In this case we're measuring "total hardness" so we're not interested in the "CO3--" bit, only the "Ca++" bit, and as hardness also include Magnesium (and assorted other metal ions, but they are always in insignificant amounts in drinkable water). Magnesium is measured as if it is Calcium too.

"Alkalinity" on the other hand is nearly (or is) 100% due to bicarbonate in drinkable (treated) waters.

"Alkalinity" is really useful for predicting the pH of a mash. "Hardness" is really useful for ... well ... nothing at all! You could use "Temporary Hardness" inplace of "Alkalinity" but do remember you are using the "CO3--" bit, not the "Ca++" bit.

Okay, your turn! You want to make this water caper as easy as possible. To simplify things one of those seven lines in your table has to go. The red line (calcium carbonate rock) or the yellow line (bicarbonate)?

Which are you going to choose?

As a bonus question! Is there anything in the above making the subject of water for brewing particularily difficult to understand? And can we do without it!

 

[gavp1979]

Some very detailed advice above (Which I wish I could fully understand ) but seems to have skipped over a basic point, don't forget to also add a campden tablet to remove the chlorine from your tap water