Water filter micron size

[Tetsuo1981]

Hi all

I've come into a water filter housing that I'm thinking of using to filter sediment from my brews and am looking for a filter for it. A couple of videos on YouTube seem to use 20 micron filters and my understanding is any lower than one will remove yeast which I don't want to do as I'll need some for priming. Would a 10 micron one be ok for my use.

Cheers guys

 

[terrym]

A two second Google search suggests yeast cell sizes are about about 4-12 micron. Take it from there.

 

[Tetsuo1981]

A two second Google search suggests yeast cell sizes are about about 4-12 micron. Take it from there.

Thanks Terry. I had done a quick search but wasn't sure so thought I'd check here as well

 

[Tetsuo1981]

A two second Google search suggests yeast cell sizes are about about 4-12 micron. Take it from there.

2nd search says average 3 to 4 so how long is a bit of string I guess

 

[terrym]

2nd search says average 3 to 4 so how long is a bit of string I guess
View attachment 26992

There will be a distribution of cell sizes and you have no idea what that will be. If the distribution is weighted so that smaller particle sizes dominate then having a 10micron filter may not give you the filtration efficiency you are looking for.
Further if the filter medium gets blinded (clogged) by small particles you may need to be able to back flush to properly clean it out. And if you cant clean it properly how do you properly sanitise it, so there may be an increased likelihood of an infected beer if you use anything that been through the filter within your brewing process.
And I would have thought you might need a large filtration surface area to stop the filter getting regularly blocked unless you are going to accept you need to clean it on the run.
Is it worth it

 

[Tetsuo1981]

There will be a distribution of cell sizes and you have no idea what that will be. If the distribution is weighted so that smaller particle sizes dominate then having a 10micron filter may not give you the filtration efficiency you are looking for

OK, I think I get that bit, but am I correct in saying particles smaller than 10 microns (such as some yeast cells) will still pass through the filter (which is fine) but bigger particles (unwanted sediment) won't? Or is it a case of all the smaller particles clumping together and still not passing through?

if the filter medium gets blinded (clogged) by small particles you may need to be able to back flush to properly clean it out.

So reversing the flow of fluid to clean it out? Shouldn't be too much of a problem, I plan on using stop taps and tapered quick connects to stop things quickly if needed and more than one pump if I have to change things on the fly. And if its really bad having another filter to hot swap out is always an option I suppose

I would have thought you might need a large filtration surface area to stop the filter getting regularly blocked unless you are going to accept you need to clean it on the run.

It's a 10 inch filter housing so fingers crossed that's enough, seen a few similar setups on youtube using either Co2, fluid transfer pumps or just good old gravity. And fully accept cleaning on the run is a likelyhood but I'm trying to build that into my system as mentioned. I use similar-ish things at work so hoping experience is going to work in my favor (famous last words)

Is it worth it

It'll be an interesting learning experience at the very least but yeah, I think so. If I hadn't have nearly all the bits just fall into my lap and had to go buy them then maybe not. But for practically free and to try and get even marginally better results why not?

 

[terrym]

@Tetsuo1981
Am I correct in saying particles smaller than 10 microns (such as some yeast cells) will still pass through the filter (which is fine) but bigger particles (unwanted sediment) won't?
Yes

Or is it a case of all the smaller particles clumping together and still not passing through?
Cant really say, some would pass through if the filter pores are clear. Be aware that as soon as a pore of the upstream side of the filter gets covered with debris of a size larger than the pore itself the pore then becomes blocked. And as soon as this starts to occur the filtration efficiency falls until the entire filter surface becomes completely blocked, and as this progresses the head required to force liquid through the filter increases.

So reversing the flow of fluid to clean it out? Shouldn't be too much of a problem, I plan on using stop taps and tapered quick connects to stop things quickly if needed and more than one pump if I have to change things on the fly. And if its really bad having another filter to hot swap out is always an option I suppose.
Cant say any more.

It's a 10 inch filter housing so fingers crossed that's enough, seen a few similar setups on youtube using either Co2, fluid transfer pumps or just good old gravity. And fully accept cleaning on the run is a likelyhood but I'm trying to build that into my system as mentioned. I use similar-ish things at work so hoping experience is going to work in my favor (famous last words)
Cant imagine gravity would work very well unless you are feeding the filter from a decent height. Even 5m head will only give you about 0.5barg or 7.5psig assuming you have enough liquid to do that and what happens when the feed vessel is empty. It would need a pump to work best imo, but not a postive displacement pump since you cant dead head them unless you have a relief valve, and that will occur when the filter finally gets blocked.

It'll be an interesting learning experience at the very least but yeah, I think so. If I hadn't have nearly all the bits just fall into my lap and had to go buy them then maybe not. But for practically free and to try and get even marginally better results why not?
My biggest concern would be contamination. Every unit operation you introduce into the brewing process you increase that risk. Otherwise I wish you well with it. If you can get it to work fine. If not you have had a go. Then share the outcome on the Forum in this thread.

 

[Tetsuo1981]

@terrym
Cheers for the replies, i think I've grasped it now with regards to overwhelming the filter. All I really want to do is knock back the worst of the sediment while keeping yeast so I can still prime with sugar. And I agree with you about using gravity, the video I saw it being done with was from the states and he went down his basement stairs with it (a luxury I don't have) so pumps are the way forwards (a luxury I do have)

And I totally agree, any foreign element will be an infection risk but I'm confident I can minimise that risk, after all people use siphoning equipment, immersion heaters, floating thermometers and all sorts to brew.

As soon as I have some results after tinkering in my lab I'll post them back here, good or bad.

 

[Tetsuo1981]

Well water testing went well, getting good flow so fingers crossed putting the beer through it should be fine, wish me luck. Off to sterilise everything within an inch of its life