Verdant Putty

[Arrakus]

I’m saving my last can of Putty for next week...two of my pals have gone dry for January so I said I’d wait. It’s Light Bulb, HB and Amundsen for me this weekend

 

[dan125]

Just having my 2nd Putty.
Now the manful has cleared it has more bitterness than I thought. Definitely more than 28 IBU that I guessed at.
Definitely getting more Galaxy upfront and a sweaty socks mosaic style after.
But that mouthfeel is awesome.
The 8% is super well hidden its that smooth

Do you think they use any kettle finings at Verdant when brewing beers like these?
I've been leaving them out of NEIPAs but find they still drop clear pretty quickly. I've not been using as much wheat malt as this recipe though

 

[Arrakus]

Do you think they use any kettle finings at Verdant when brewing beers like these?
I've been leaving them out of NEIPAs but find they still drop clear pretty quickly. I've not been using as much wheat malt as this recipe though

I’ve never heard them talk about it or read about them using finings, I’m going to guess they don’t.

I see someone is selling a can of putty on eBay for 15 quid!!

 

[dan125]

I’ve never heard them talk about it or read about them using finings, I’m going to guess they don’t.

I see someone is selling a can of putty on eBay for 15 quid!!

Yeah, I didn't think they would. Think I need to try increasing the %age of wheat to see if it makes a difference

 

[Hoddy]

So i think i'm going to have to have a go at this after my next brew.

The more i read the more i want to try and crack this.

 

[Braindead]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H6SYXgcjX9vR9xYGiJhKZOyS8XtO60d2Hl5Jzcbwjzw/edit#gid=0

Cloudwater use finings on V3

 

[Hoddy]

Correct. There is a chain of thought that excessive trub (not suspended oat and wheat particles actual protein trub) can/does actually inhibit and negatively affect yeast growth and its ability to convert starches to ethanol hence why i would expect them to use kettle finnings and calrex in the FV.

 

[HopHead420]

View attachment 17637 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H6SYXgcjX9vR9xYGiJhKZOyS8XtO60d2Hl5Jzcbwjzw/edit#gid=0

Cloudwater use finings on V3

Just FYI the beer pictured is their AW-18 V3 one off Citra only DIPA, which is not the same beer as the v3 referred to in that google doc. The V3 in the doc actually dropped pretty much brite, though the V3.1 didn't.

 

[Braindead]

So i think i'm going to have to have a go at this after my next brew.

The more i read the more i want to try and crack this.

Me too once I get some cash.
What recipe you going to try

 

[Hoddy]

Me too once I get some cash.
What recipe you going to try

I am going to go for a variant on a Putty/Pulp grist, high chloride water, and super soft yeast. Not decided on the hop bill yet although i have some ideas. I started on building up the recipe last night so i will work on it during the week so i can order the key ingredients the following week as i am brewing a "special" beer in conjunction with @dan125 this weekend. So this one will be brewed in about 3 weeks time.

 

[dan125]

I am going to go for a variant on a Putty/Pulp grist, high chloride water, and super soft yeast. Not decided on the hop bill yet although i have some ideas. I started on building up the recipe last night so i will work on it during the week so i can order the key ingredients the following week as i am brewing a "special" beer in conjunction with @dan125 this weekend. So this one will be brewed in about 3 weeks time.

What do you mean by 'super soft yeast'?

 

[Hoddy]

What do you mean by 'super soft yeast'?

A yeast strain that has low 70% attenuation and a low flocculator like a London Ale 1028, London Ale III 1318 (slight higher floc) or a Thames Valley Ale 1275 or an equiv Whitelabs strain.

 

[dan125]

View attachment 17637 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1H6SYXgcjX9vR9xYGiJhKZOyS8XtO60d2Hl5Jzcbwjzw/edit#gid=0

Cloudwater use finings on V3

Its interesting that they seem to cool the beer down a bit to condition then warm back up to dry hop

 

[HopHead420]

I would avoid using a yeast with low flocculation in these beers. London III, for instance, is a high flocculator, as is SO4, which is also commonly used for these.

The reason being that these beers shouldn't be yeasty, the haze is a protein-polyphenol haze, not yeast. Yeast haze in these beers will just increase astringency and lead to longer conditioning, which these beers ideally want to avoid.

 

[Sadfield]

I would avoid using a yeast with low flocculation in these beers. London III, for instance, is a high flocculator, as is SO4, which is also commonly used for these.

The reason being that these beers shouldn't be yeasty, the haze is a protein-polyphenol haze, not yeast. Yeast haze in these beers will just increase astringency and lead to longer conditioning, which these beers ideally want to avoid.

The yeast selection should be based on ester production and attenuation. Fruitier, yeast driven flavour and higher residual sugar. Flocculation, or lack of, can be dealt with by chilling, and probably why in the posts above, Cloudwater chill and then raise the temperature for dryhopping, when using Medium flocculating WLP095.

 

[HopHead420]

The yeast selection should be based on ester production and attenuation. Fruitier, yeast driven flavour and higher residual sugar. Flocculation, or lack of, can be dealt with by chilling, and probably why in the posts above, Cloudwater chill and then raise the temperature for dryhopping, when using Medium flocculating WLP095.

I stand by what I said. WLP095 is a decent flocculator, not amazing, but better than 001 for instance. As for crash cooling, yes it works, but unless you have the right equipment (i.e. the ability to replace the head space with CO2 rather than air as it compresses), then crashing these beers too cold/for too long will potentially bring about oxidation issues.

As for higher residual sugar, I wouldn't say that is all that needed. Some of these strains do leave behind more flavourless dextrins than others, but plenty of the most-lauded NEIPAs in the world have a low-ish finishing gravity. It's a myth that these beers are yeast driven. They are hop bombs, they are hop driven with yeast playing a complimentary second fiddle rather than virtually disappearing (as with West Coast IPA).

 

[Sadfield]

As for crash cooling, yes it works, but unless you have the right equipment (i.e. the ability to replace the head space with CO2 rather than air as it compresses), then crashing these beers too cold/for too long will potentially bring about oxidation issues.

Something simple like a 10p balloon replacing the airlock in the later stages of fermentation?

They are hop bombs, they are hop driven with yeast playing a complimentary second fiddle rather than virtually disappearing (as with West Coast IPA).

So we are in agreement that yeast selection is based on flavour and not flocculation.

 

[HopHead420]

Something simple like a 10p balloon replacing the airlock in the later stages of fermentation?


So we are in agreement that yeast selection is based on flavour and not flocculation.

As long as you can capture enough CO2 in the balloon and get a good seal then yeah, that'll work, like the brulosophy guys do it.

A suitable flavour profile is desirable, yes, but there are lots of suitable yeasts. You can use a very fruity yeast like WLP095, or a yeast which cranks up the vanilla and has increased glycerol production for head and body like London III, or you can use something plain Jane like SO4, or you can co-pitch a small amount of a fruity/phenolic Belgian yeast with a more traditional ale yeast... there are many ways to crack this nut. However, it is desirable to use a yeast which is flocculent, it helps get the product clean and packaged more quickly. Necessary it isn't, but desirable it is.

WLP644 is a fun one with these, but even when cold refuses to flocc quickly, so can be a pain to work with, and can risk too much time between dry hopping and packaging if it isn't playing ball. Co-pitching a flocculent yeast with WLP644 massively improves the consistency of its behaviour and the average turnaround time of these beers.

 

[Braindead]

Ill stick with London Ale when I have a crack. Messaged James at Verdant, fingers crossed he replies back to me with a few hints. Hopefully he does, Brian at Northern Monk gave me some great advice. awhile ago.
As for the ballon, Id try my method and swap it out for a CamelBak style bladder, works a treat
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=392121450358

 

[Braindead]

Bloody Galaxy is so expensive at the moment too.
My 2nd can of Putty still tasted a tad green and that's prob 2 months old since brewing. Its on at my local this Friday so Ill fill my boots and see how it tastes from keg.