Veganuary.

[dad_of_jon]

I don't want to eat religious food and it is not labelled in UK supermarkets. What happened to freedom of choice. Am i not allowed to boycot anything anymore. Heaven forbid i offend anyone.

I'm offended you're offended you may inadvertently offended anyone. I think i've just offended us both

 

[dad_of_jon]

That's hardly fair. Concern for animals' well being doesn't imply xenophobia at all. And it certainly doesn't imply a moral imperative to become vegan or veggie. The balance of informed opinion is that animals do suffer more when subjected to halal or kosher ritual slaughter and it should be stopped. To be fair, it is likely that many animals suffer as much or even more under some of our dodgy slaughter-house practices. That needs to be sorted out- it doesn't excuse ritual slaughter. For the record, I'm also suspicious of genital mutilation of young children, and the mental damage caused by scaring kids with an eternity of torment if they look at a girl (or vice versa). That doesn't mean I have any problems with aspects of religious faith or practice that don't cause harm. Each to his own, apart from that, and I'll stick with Thor and Odin and horns of foaming mead and the occasional Party 7.

Google: how long does it take an animal to die halal
for example.

I'm with you on thor & odin but draw the line at party 7

 

[stephen1546]

I was a vegetarian for around 18 months, to be fair i felt a lot better. gave it up because i got frustrated with (in my view) limited choice . Got really bored of Quorn too. My vegan mate Julie has been trying to source a good vegan red wine, no expert but has it got something to do with Tannins that makes wine not vegan?

 

[An Ankoù]

I do think that many people's antipathy to halal meat is a bit racist. Ask one what he knows about non-halal slaughter and it may be very little. That would make me suspect a xenophobic motive. Are people still opposed to halal meat if it is pre-stunned? I read many more stories against halal than shechita. Why? Muslims scholars have largely accepted pre-stunning but no Jewish scholars have.

If stunning means that the animal is slaughtered as humanely as possible and is effectively unconscious of its death then the manner of slaughter isn't really an issue. You're quite right that shechita does not accept that stunned and slaughtered meat is kosher. Not all schools of Islam accept that stunned, before being killed animals are Halal. The issue is about limiting the animals' suffering rather than xenophobia. Beercat has a valid point in wanting to have the option to avoid ritually slaughtered food or meat killed in the name of a deity, on conscientious grounds. That's not xenophobia either.

 

[MmmBeer]

I agree that all meat should be clearly labelled as either religiously slaughtered or not, to give the freedom of choice to the majority as well as the minority. Were you aware that all New Zealand lamb is routinely halal slaughtered? Somewhat more bizarrely all products manufactured by Kellogs, Nestle and Campbells are halal certified.

Okay, it's not an issue that I would ever consider stopping or reducing meat eating over, but it would be nice to have the clarity to make an informed choice.

 

[Brewed_Force]

Just as a complete random aside I discovered the other day dogs need the same amounts of vitamin C that humans do, but they can manufacture it themselves (inside themselves, not in little doggy vitamin factories)

Yeah, it's just primates, bats, capybaras and guinea pigs who need to find an external source.

 

[MyQul]

I was a vegetarian for around 18 months, to be fair i felt a lot better. gave it up because i got frustrated with (in my view) limited choice . Got really bored of Quorn too. My vegan mate Julie has been trying to source a good vegan red wine, no expert but has it got something to do with Tannins that makes wine not vegan?

Perhaps more cook books? Compare home many different types of meat people eat (chicken, pork, lamb, beef and fish) to how many different types of fruit an veg you people eat (hundreds of the buggers. So many I'm not even going to attempt to type a list out)

 

[Covrich]

Well I am not a vegan I have cut my meat consumprion quite a lot.. IN fact I will ahrdlly have anything today which isn't considered vegan..

I have a lot of huel though that is vegan and contains plenty of B12.. It is great stuff..

Living alone often makes me have more huel and smaller meals.. But I am no way a vegan I still love a kebab every now and then and a roastie and a steak ect

 

[MmmBeer]

I was a vegetarian for around 18 months, to be fair i felt a lot better. gave it up because i got frustrated with (in my view) limited choice . Got really bored of Quorn too. My vegan mate Julie has been trying to source a good vegan red wine, no expert but has it got something to do with Tannins that makes wine not vegan?

I would have thought that it was the isinglass finings, used commonly in wine and beer as a fining agent to remove yeast cells before bottling. Isinglass is collagen extracted from the swim bladder of certain fish. It could also be gelatin, also sometimes used in clearing. Very little of either, if any will make into the finsihed product. Tannins, or polypectins generally come from the grape skins, or are added from another plant source and are used to extend the life of the wine.

 

[marshbrewer]

Just for clarity, about 84% of animals slaughtered that are certified Halal are stunned prior to the slaughter, as it is permissable. That's the RSPCA figure.

Incorrect. The RSPCA figure is 58%. So, 4 in 10 are slaughtered fully conscious, and as there is no differentiation in labeling, currently, the only way to avoid this is to avoid all meat slaughtered in this way.

 

[VW911]

I spent eight years as a QA Manager in an Abbottoir/Red Meat Plant.
Whilst stunning is, for the most part effective, it can, and does go wrong.
I've seen a steer stunned (with a captive bolt gun), but before the slaughterman could shackle him, and finish the job, the
steer got up, and made a hasty exit through a fire escape.
It looked like a vision of hell - covered in blood from the blood pit, with huge horns and obviously very agitated.
It was finally cornered about three miles away, after crossing several fields and swimming across two rivers.
You do get de-sensitised to it, but it does take a certain type of person to work there - my eldest son tried it, and lasted a morning...

 

[An Ankoù]

Wouldn't give em the steam off my piss...they'd ban fishing if they could..heathens.

Far too Establishment for me!

And what have you got against heathens, then? No need to start throwing gratuitous insults at us.

 

[An Ankoù]

I was a vegetarian for around 18 months, to be fair i felt a lot better. gave it up because i got frustrated with (in my view) limited choice . Got really bored of Quorn too. My vegan mate Julie has been trying to source a good vegan red wine, no expert but has it got something to do with Tannins that makes wine not vegan?

I don't think so. I would hazard a guess it's more to do with whether animal products are used as finings (clarifying agent). But what a load of old todgers. Are we to imagine that every bunch of grapes is rigorously inspected to make sure there are no ants or spiders in there before sending it to the press?

 

[marshbrewer]

Have I ever told you about my childhood friend* who got strangled to death in vegetable harvester?

My point is, there will always be accidents / things going wrong, but you try and design them out if the system so they don't occur. Stunning was an attempt to design out animal distress, and am sure the regulations and best practice are always evolving. A slaughter house in 2020 will be a very different place to one in the 1990' (CCTV, etc etc) just as a potato harvester now will be much safer than the ones I worked with as a child in the 1980's. I see no stun methods as a step in the wrong direction, IMHO.

* a bit of artistic license here to make a point. It was actually a corn auger, and he wasn't my friend, he was a massive bully who only left me alone when I got fed up with him nicking my marbles and punched him in the nose. But you see my point, hopefully.

 

[kelper]

From the FSA website.

• For all species the majority of animals were stunned prior to slaughter. • 99% of cattle were stunned prior to slaughter, with 80% being stunned by captive bolt. • 97% of calves were stunned prior to slaughter, with 89% being stunned by captive bolt. • 75% of sheep were stunned prior to slaughter mainly by electrical head stunning. Sheep was the species with the largest proportion of animals slaughtered by a nonstun method (25%), with almost all of this being Halal. For all other species the proportion of slaughter which was non-stun was at most 10%.

So the RSPCA, who have an axe to grind, are misinterpreting.

 

[marshbrewer]

Can I have the link please? I suspect that doesn't include chickens (birds)

Actually, forget that; you're misunderstanding the RSPCA figures, @kelper . They are referring to % of ritual slaughtered animals stunned, not total % of slaughtered animals stunned.

 

[MyQul]

My point is, there will always be accidents / things going wrong, but you try and design them out if the system so they don't occur. Stunning was an attempt to design out animal distress, and am sure the regulations and best practice are always evolving. A slaughter house in 2020 will be a very different place to one in the 1990' (CCTV, etc etc) just as a potato harvester now will be much safer than the ones I worked with as a child in the 1980's. I see no stun methods as a step in the wrong direction, IMHO.

.

The're stunning potatoes now!?

 

[An Ankoù]

The're stunning potatoes now!?

Not before they poke their eyes out!

 

[MyQul]

Not before they poke their eyes out!

THE *******S!!!!

 

[Brew_DD2]

Incorrect. The RSPCA figure is 58%. So, 4 in 10 are slaughtered fully conscious, and as there is no differentiation in labeling, currently, the only way to avoid this is to avoid all meat slaughtered in this way.

Depends which RSPCA figures you look at. The 58% included kosher as well, and as discussed above, stunning isn't permitted for those.

I agree that there should be more transparency over method of slaughter, but I also think that objections over Halal are overblown given that the vast majority of slaughter is done after the animal is stunned. If someone wants their meat blessed, who am I to argue. It's ******* stupid, but as long as the slaughter standards are the same I couldn't care less.

My experience tells me that most who cry foul of Halal, do not share your concerns over cruelty, but rather like to use it as a further reason to justify their hatred.