Using older grain

[An Ankoù]

My name is dave, I am Gemma's brother. I vote use it.

EleventyBillion : one

Gemma told me that Dave was her boyfriend. You're not from Swanage are you? How many fingers have you got?
Hi to Gemma from Tiffany, by the way.

 

[An Ankoù]

You are correct that I would not wish to waste a day making a beer that is not up to scratch, but it's not about the cost more about the wastage.

How much malt are we talking about here? Half a sack or half a pallet?

 

[Galena]

How much malt are we talking about here? Half a sack or half a pallet?

Maybe 10kgs MO, then 10kgs of other malts in various quantities

 

[An Ankoù]

Maybe 10kgs MO, then 10kgs of other malts in various quantities

Yeah. Needs the base malts brewing up. Crystal doesn't keep as well as the others in my experience, but anything kilned and roasted: pilsner, pale, vienna munich, amber, brown etc. tend to keep ok.

 

[MashBag]

Gemma told me that Dave was her boyfriend. You're not from Swanage are you? How many fingers have you got?
Hi to Gemma from Tiffany, by the way.

Tiff, you promised not to mention that till we were Facebook official. You know he's only my stepbrother.
Gems

 

[Moe]

I brewed a couple of beers a few months back with crushed pale malt that had been in my garage opened for 9 months.

Not in an airtight container, just the top rolled down and bulldog clipped.

The beer came out nice

 

[starseeker]

Brew with it and maybe add a bit more for efficiency loss for being a bit older .

 

[prog99]

I brewed a couple of beers a few months back with crushed pale malt that had been in my garage opened for 9 months.

Not in an airtight container, just the top rolled down and bulldog clipped.

The beer came out nice

Same here. No change of efficiency either.

 

[specmalt]

I'm always iffy about buying pre crushed grain from brew shop after a bag of same a couple months ago. Opened and poured into grain bucket, 5 mionutes later there's a Mongol-like horde of weevils came pouring up the inside of the bucket looking for freedom, so I doubt there was too much of the good stuff left to use . With regards older whole grain, I have an old large stainless steel colander/bowl combination that I run all my older grain through periodically to check for bugs/health, including any opened base malt bags. I generally happy to use older grain as it's always stored in airtight containers, apart from my bagged grain, and haven't encountered any recognisable adverse effects on taste.

 

[ARNWD]

+1 Brew with it.

There's only one harvest each year, so almost all grain is old grain. And yes I know it's malted after harvest but I still stand by my point.

 

[foxy]

You are correct that I would not wish to waste a day making a beer that is not up to scratch, but it's not about the cost more about the wastage.

It's up to you, all I am doing is answering your OP Would you brew with it or bin it? Entering several comps both club and state I like to know I am entering the best beer possible so I am careful in the selection of ingredients, wort pH, mash, boil, ferment, and packaging.
I try not to leave anything to chance. I am not disputing you can't make beer from it as I stated, just that I wouldn't.
Quote from the Malt Miller Feb 8th 2023 similar post. To brew the best beer possible you need the freshest ingredients. There is a really good reason that pretty much the whole brewing world crushes malt directly into the mash tun ( or variations of ) except in the UK. In many countries, crushed malt is really hard to get.
While unmilled grain will last longer especially darker malts they are still susceptible to either moisture loss or gain which will affect the amylase hence loss of efficiency and possibly a funky taste in the beer. Milled malt is even more susceptible to both loss and increase in moisture along with other spoiling mechanisms.

 

[An Ankoù]

I'm always iffy about buying pre crushed grain from brew shop after a bag of same a couple months ago. Opened and poured into grain bucket, 5 mionutes later there's a Mongol-like horde of weevils came pouring up the inside of the bucket looking for freedom, so I doubt there was too much of the good stuff left to use . With regards older whole grain, I have an old large stainless steel colander/bowl combination that I run all my older grain through periodically to check for bugs/health, including any opened base malt bags. I generally happy to use older grain as it's always stored in airtight containers, apart from my bagged grain, and haven't encountered any recognisable adverse effects on taste.

That's very interesting. In 50+ years of brewing, using whole and crushed malt from all British and European maltsters, I've never even seen a weevil.
I wonder if they're a local thing or maybe picked up in the holds of ships malt is sent from one continent to another.

 

[user 49905]

I had some 3 year old grain (was sealed), did a 1 gallon test with pineapple juice (Bromelain is a cysteine protease that targets the peptide bond inside the protein molecule where they have a cysteine amino acid) brewed ok. Did a 1 gallon test without, better.

 

[Mash Monster]

Taste it first if it tastes off at all dump it ! Otherwise brew with it.
I’ve just brewed a NEIPA with grain that was BBF 12/23 turned out fine !

 

[Galena]

That's very interesting. In 50+ years of brewing, using whole and crushed malt from all British and European maltsters, I've never even seen a weevil.
I wonder if they're a local thing or maybe picked up in the holds of ships malt is sent from one continent to another.

The only time I have seen weevils was in my bowl of meusli at a hotel in Mallorca over 30 years ago.

 

[Galena]

It's up to you, all I am doing is answering your OP Would you brew with it or bin it? Entering several comps both club and state I like to know I am entering the best beer possible so I am careful in the selection of ingredients, wort pH, mash, boil, ferment, and packaging.
I try not to leave anything to chance. I am not disputing you can't make beer from it as I stated, just that I wouldn't.
Quote from the Malt Miller Feb 8th 2023 similar post. To brew the best beer possible you need the freshest ingredients. There is a really good reason that pretty much the whole brewing world crushes malt directly into the mash tun ( or variations of ) except in the UK. In many countries, crushed malt is really hard to get.
While unmilled grain will last longer especially darker malts they are still susceptible to either moisture loss or gain which will affect the amylase hence loss of efficiency and possibly a funky taste in the beer. Milled malt is even more susceptible to both loss and increase in moisture along with other spoiling mechanisms.

I do appreciate your p.o.v. and you make some very valid points which II am still considering. Cheers

 

[Agentgonzo]

I do appreciate your p.o.v. and you make some very valid points which II am still considering. Cheers

It's also with bearing in mind that companies that sell you products will always offer compelling advice as to why you should buy the product they are selling. Toothpaste adverts (from people selling toothpaste) always show an enormous slug of toothpaste on the brush, whereas desists (who don't sell toothpaste) recommend a blob about the size of a pea.

 

[An Ankoù]

I had some 3 year old grain (was sealed), did a 1 gallon test with pineapple juice (Bromelain is a cysteine protease that targets the peptide bond inside the protein molecule where they have a cysteine amino acid) brewed ok. Did a 1 gallon test without, better.

Why were you especially targeting cysteine? Flavour? Antioxidant properties? Effect on ingested alcohol?
I gather your beer tasted better without it.

 

[MashBag]

It's up to you, all I am doing is answering your OP Would you brew with it or bin it? Entering several comps both club and state I like to know I am entering the best beer possible so I am careful in the selection of ingredients, wort pH, mash, boil, ferment, and packaging.
I try not to leave anything to chance. I am not disputing you can't make beer from it as I stated, just that I wouldn't.
Quote from the Malt Miller Feb 8th 2023 similar post. To brew the best beer possible you need the freshest ingredients. There is a really good reason that pretty much the whole brewing world crushes malt directly into the mash tun ( or variations of ) except in the UK. In many countries, crushed malt is really hard to get.
While unmilled grain will last longer especially darker malts they are still susceptible to either moisture loss or gain which will affect the amylase hence loss of efficiency and possibly a funky taste in the beer. Milled malt is even more susceptible to both loss and increase in moisture along with other spoiling mechanisms.

I agree with you.
I read this as "can I make a brew", not a comp beer. Maltmiller (secrets in the name ) exist to sell more grain, might that bias their marketing communications.

 

[crescent city Mike]

I once used a sealed tub of Pilsner malt that was 10 years old. It was fine. Even if your batch has a few weevils, that's just a little extra protein.