Using older grain

[An Ankoù]

Amazing how because someone does something different it becomes an issue with others.

The issue wasn't that. It was your insistance that a fellow brewer should jetison perfectly sound malt on the grounds that it was a bit older than you would have liked. You based this on conflicting and arbitrary guidelines from two maltsters, the final word from one came to: at the end of the day, it all depends on how well you store your malt. You then suggested that the use of milled malt by some craft brewers was responsible for a (in fact non-existent) decline in the quality and standing of English beers. A bit rich, don't you think, in retrospect.
Thank you for the link to your brewing records, my comment was tongue in cheek as I remember your contributions to earlier threads and I shall look at them again.
I should still like to know how and for how long you store your malts, though, as you've had so much to say about it. I'll wager it's exactly the same as all the rest of us.

(except that I surround my tubs with steel sheets to prevent fluctuations in the earth's magnetic field having a detrimental effect.
I wonder whether background radiation increases oxidation. Especially as I'm living in a massive slab of granite!)
Only joking

Or am I?

 

[foxy]

The issue wasn't that. It was your insistance that a fellow brewer should jetison perfectly sound malt on the grounds that it was a bit older than you would have liked. You based this on conflicting and arbitrary guidelines from two maltsters, the final word from one came to: at the end of the day, it all depends on how well you store your malt. You then suggested that the use of milled malt by some craft brewers was responsible for a (in fact non-existent) decline in the quality and standing of English beers. A bit rich, don't you think, in retrospect.
Thank you for the link to your brewing records, my comment was tongue in cheek as I remember your contributions to earlier threads and I shall look at them again.
I should still like to know how and for how long you store your malts, though, as you've had so much to say about it. I'll wager it's exactly the same as all the rest of us.

(except that I surround my tubs with steel sheets to prevent fluctuations in the earth's magnetic field having a detrimental effect.
I wonder whether background radiation increases oxidation. Especially as I'm living in a massive slab of granite!)
Only joking

Or am I?

I never insisted he should jettison the grain he had. Read his original post. 'Would you brew with it or bin it?' I just gave my opinion, as others gave theirs I never insisted on anything, the second post of mine I told him it was up to him what he did.
When did I mention the use of milled malt being the downfall of English craft brewers? The brew store I get my malts from is just over 5 minutes away. I don't pay for grain but I still keep it as recommended by the maltsters, my fermenting room at the moment is 16.5 C just a tab over the recommended temperature. Any speciality grains in excess go into that room, base malt is kept in a bag in the shed but used up very quickly.

 

[An Ankoù]

I never insisted he should jettison the grain he had. Read his original post. 'Would you brew with it or bin it?' I just gave my opinion, as others gave theirs I never insisted on anything, the second post of mine I told him it was up to him what he did.
When did I mention the use of milled malt being the downfall of English craft brewers? The brew store I get my malts from is just over 5 minutes away. I don't pay for grain but I still keep it as recommended by the maltsters, my fermenting room at the moment is 16.5 C just a tab over the recommended temperature. Any speciality grains in excess go into that room, base malt is kept in a It in the shed but used up very quickly.

Reiteration of opinion counts as insistence in my book.

Most craft brewers buy their malt already crushed. They have neither a room to crush the malt nor the facilities to keep it. England was a forerunner in brewing but have now been overtaken

Was that not your intention here? If not, what was your point?

It's great that you have a room for your malt, but it doesn't answer the question, how do you contain your malt? Is it in sealed bags or is it open to the circulation of air, within this room. Moreover, it's cold weather now as you're "off to warmer climes" and it;s already 16.5C. How hot does this room get in the summer?

I'm dead impressed that you don't have to pay for your malt. We do, though, and are reluctant to feed it to the pigeons.

 

[jambop]

View attachment 101794This comes in various sizes. The 60 litre version will take a full sack unopened. Ie the whole sack goes in, the Grain isn't emptied into the barrel. I keep all my sacks in these and I've got a couple of 30 litres for smaller quantities.
Really small quantities like crystal malts are kept in the heavy duty polythene bags they arrive in and stored in picnic cooler boxes. Just because they're a handy size and relatively well sealed. Nothing to do with insulation.

What do others use?

I vacuum seal my base grain in 2.5kg bags after the sack is opened . I use 2.5kg bags because I have adjusted my brewing so base grains is always 5kg per brew. Roasted malts are bought in much smaller quantities so are sealed in smalled amounts. I store the vacuum sealed bags in big flip lid storeage bins I bought in IKEA as in the winter time rodents like to infiltrate my brewhouse. When I need a couple of sacks for a brew it is per weighed and crush the grains fresh on the morning of my brew while the mash water is heating.

As to best beer? I will take a good English bitter or pale ale over any Euro pish! German and Belgian beer better than well made English ale ? Different yes better ? Yer having a laugh! And I am Scottish... we also make some very nice beers.

 

[An Ankoù]

I vacuum seal my base grain in 2.5kg bags after the sack is opened . I use 2.5kg bags because I have adjusted my brewing so base grains is always 5kg per brew. Roasted malts are bought in much smaller quantities so are sealed in smalled amounts. I store the vacuum sealed bags in big flip lid storeage bins I bought in IKEA as in the winter time rodents like to infiltrate my brewhouse. When I need a couple of sacks for a brew it is per weighed and crush the grains fresh on the morning of my brew while the mash water is heating.

Where do you get your supplies from, @jambop ? Did you know that thehomebrecompany.co.uk has got a really good discount on their lager malt at the moment. Delivery isn't as bad as some of the French suppliers, ie,, £12.95 for up to 30 Kg. Or you can go to their Irish site and pay in euros.

I should add that Minch Lager Malt has a really good extraction rate.

 

[jambop]

Where do you get your supplies from, @jambop ? Did you know that thehomebrecompany.co.uk has got a really good discount on their lager malt at the moment. Delivery isn't as bad as some of the French suppliers, ie,, £12.95 for up to 30 Kg. Or you can go to their Irish site and pay in euros.

I should add that Minch Lager Malt has a really good extraction rate.

I buy my equipment and my brewing ingredients from Rolling beers down at Montpellier. They are really good in my opinion. I have bought at another supplier Braumark who are good but I bought some suff and there were labelling issues and I don't trust them know. Here is a link to Rolling beers if you don't know them and by the way I have found them to be really amazing when it comes to delivery . Their pricing is maybe a little more than say Braumarkt but they deliver to you door within, for me because I am in the SW, 48hrs of placing the order and I trust what I am buying. At Braumarkt for example I had ordered fuggles hops and some Calcium Sulphate. The fuggles were said to be 9.9% AA which was ******** and the Calcium Sulphate turned out to be Calcium Carbonate ! Now if I had been new to brewing I would have been in a mess using that. What I will say about Braumarkt is they do have decent prices. Worth having a look if you have not already

https://www.rolling-beers.fr/en/

https://braumarkt.com/nl/

 

[An Ankoù]

I buy my equipment and my brewing ingredients from Rolling beers down at Montpellier. They are really good in my opinion. I have bought at another supplier Braumark who are good but I bought some suff and there were labelling issues and I don't trust them know. Here is a link to Rolling beers if you don't know them and by the way I have found them to be really amazing when it comes to delivery . Their pricing is maybe a little more than say Braumarkt but they deliver to you door within, for me because I am in the SW, 48hrs of placing the order and I trust what I am buying. At Braumarkt for example I had ordered fuggles hops and some Calcium Sulphate. The fuggles were said to be 9.9% AA which was ******** and the Calcium Sulphate turned out to be Calcium Carbonate ! Now if I had been new to brewing I would have been in a mess using that. What I will say about Braumarkt is they do have decent prices. Worth having a look if you have not already

https://www.rolling-beers.fr/en/

https://braumarkt.com/nl/

Thanks. In fact I've just put in an order with Rolling Beers for some yeast. They're doing the WHC and Lallemand yeasts at a really good price and, if you order a few, it's worth the postage. I also use Braumarkt for bits and pieces. They have a strange way of decreasing the deliver charge according to your spend, but it starts out at €13,95 for just a single sachet if yeast, which is daft. I'd use them more, but I'm not certain about Swaen Malt, not having tried it. Their customer service, on the other hand, is second to none.
I like thehomebrewcompany as their malt is often reasonable and they have a full range of leaf hops, which I prefer to use for many beers. Their choice of liquid yeasts, though has lessened over the last year or so.
As for Autobrasseur. They seem to not want to be competitive.

 

[jambop]

I

Thanks. In fact I've just put in an order with Rolling Beers for some yeast. They're doing the WHC and Lallemand yeasts at a really good price and, if you order a few, it's worth the postage. I also use Braumarkt for bits and pieces. They have a strange way of decreasing the deliver charge according to your spend, but it starts out at €13,95 for just a single sachet if yeast, which is daft. I'd use them more, but I'm not certain about Swaen Malt, not having tried it. Their customer service, on the other hand, is second to none.
I like thehomebrewcompany as their malt is often reasonable and they have a full range of leaf hops, which I prefer to use for many beers. Their choice of liquid yeasts, though has lessened over the last year or so.
As for Autobrasseur. They seem to not want to be competitive.

I have only tried the Dingemans for pale malt and Pilsner and both were pretty good but I normally use Crisp or Weyermann. However Rolling beers seem to have gone over to Simpsons for UK malt so my next pale will be MO or GP I will sticl with Weyermanns for Pilsner.

 

[An Ankoù]

I

I have only tried the Dingemans for pale malt and Pilsner and both were pretty good but I normally use Crisp or Weyermann. However Rolling beers seem to have gone over to Simpsons for UK malt so my next pale will be MO or GP I will sticl with Weyermanns for Pilsner.

I think you're right about the pilsner; I use Bestmalz and it gives a crisper result in pilsners than the Minch The Minch lager malt is excellent for making GPAs (pseudo-lagers) where you'd expect a bit more of a malt backbone. I haven't tried it, but I expect it would be great for a true pilsner, ie Czech. I've used several continental pale malts including Bestmalz and Château pale and one other I got from Brouwland ages ago. I find they're a bit darker than English malts and have a less malty flavour I suspect they're the same malt as they use for pilsner, but kilned off a bit darker. Of course, that only really makes a difference in pale ales and bitters that are trying to showcase the malt.
Interesting what you say about Rolling Beers dropping Crisp. Geterbrewed in NI have recently flogged off all their Crisp malts and gone over to Muntons. Sounds as if there's something going on.

 

[Galena]

Interesting what you say about Rolling Beers dropping Crisp. Geterbrewed in NI have recently flogged off all their Crisp malts and gone over to Muntons. Sounds as if there's something going on.

I was browsing on Geterbrewed yesterday and noticed most of the Crisp malt was 'Discontinued' with 'Substitute available'

 

[jambop]

I made a Pilsner back in April using Dingemans pilsner and 18% Weyermanns Munich II . It is drinking well now and it has made a really nice Pilsner but I used Perle, Spalter and Saaz instead of my usual Perle,Hersbrucker and Saaz and it is just a touch softer but the colour and the head is something to behold . I would have no issues using Dingemans pilsner malt. As a rule though I tend to make mainly good old English style beer though.

 

[foxy]

Reiteration of opinion counts as insistence in my book.

Was that not your intention here? If not, what was your point?

It's great that you have a room for your malt, but it doesn't answer the question, how do you contain your malt? Is it in sealed bags or is it open to the circulation of air, within this room. Moreover, it's cold weather now as you're "off to warmer climes" and it;s already 16.5C. How hot does this room get in the summer?

I'm dead impressed that you don't have to pay for your malt. We do, though, and are reluctant to feed it to the pigeons.

Reiteration of opinion counts as insistence in my book.
I'm sorry, but that isn't my opinion, just a paraphrase of what maltsters recommend in storing grain.

Was that not your intention here? If not, what was your point?
Exactly as I stated, England was the forerunner of brewing ales but has now followed the lead of America with craft brewers copying American beers and hop content was a reply to your statement that English brew better beers. Quote:- Malt Miller don't know what they're talking about. To brew the best beer in the world, you need to be English.

It's great that you have a room for your malt, but it doesn't answer the question, how do you contain your malt? Is it in sealed bags or is it open to the circulation of air, within this room. Moreover, it's cold weather now as you're "off to warmer climes" and it;s already 16.5C. How hot does this room get in the summer?
My speciality malt is bagged in vacuum zip locks kept in plastic containers, I mill my own grain so no need to buy crushed malt the speciality malts are used within 6 months maximum of acquisition.
The room is temperature-controlled, outside the temperature can be 9C during winter and up to 40C during summer a reverse cycle air con runs 24-7-365 so the temperature remains constant.
Just because I don't pay for grain doesn't mean I am not careful, the pigeons are fed wheat, and it is a treat for them when they get malted grains. However, they do pull a face at roasted grains.

 

[An Ankoù]

England was the forerunner of brewing ales but has now followed the lead of America with craft brewers copying American beers and hop content

Incorrect.
England was, is and always will be the forerunners of brewing ale. We have added American style ales to our repertoire, not replaced the traditional ales. We all know about West Coast brewers being blown away with Cascade hops in the day, and all the hype and marketing that surrounded that revolution. But I'll bet you've never had a pint of what Oakham of Peterborough do with cascade, which, frankly blows West Coast fizz out of the water. You need to stay up to date if you're going to comment of English ale.
Like anything trad, the market share goes up and down. That's just an example.

My speciality malt is bagged in vacuum zip locks kept in plastic containers,

At last. We get down to it. You keep your malts like all the rest of us, in sealed bags, in a box where there is no more circulation of air than in my blue barrels. Why didn't you say so.


I think that until you've spent some time drinking English ales in England, and can give an informed opinion, we've little else to say on the matter, have we?

Malt is considered a malt by pigeons? How do you know?

 

[foxy]

Incorrect.
England was, is and always will be the forerunners of brewing ale. We have added American style ales to our repertoire, not replaced the traditional ales. We all know about West Coast brewers being blown away with Cascade hops in the day, and all the hype and marketing that surrounded that revolution. But I'll bet you've never had a pint of what Oakham of Peterborough do with cascade, which, frankly blows West Coast fizz out of the water. You need to stay up to date if you're going to comment of English ale.
Like anything trad, the market share goes up and down. That's just an example.


At last. We get down to it. You keep your malts like all the rest of us, in sealed bags, in a box where there is no more circulation of air than in my blue barrels. Why didn't you say so.


I think that until you've spent some time drinking English ales in England, and can give an informed opinion, we've little else to say on the matter, have we?

Malt is considered a malt by pigeons? How do you know?

England is no longer the forerunner. England's biggest export was beer to the colonies, England no longer has the market in the exportation of beer. They are now ranked 6th, behind Mexico, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and USA.
Well opinions on taste matter not, 'One mans meat is another mans poison' so what you think has no bearing.

I keep malts for a very short period as I keep saying, my malts are kept as the recommendation of the maltsters. The circulation of air is for the malt bagged by the maltster. Not bagged by the home brewer.

I get to England fairly regularly and I do try as many beers as I can while there. As I said I will be escaping the Melbourne winter for a month to the warmer climes of the northern hemisphere.

If I put malted grain out with the wheat the malted grain goes before the wheat is touched.

 

[MashBag]

Good post. I had forgotten just how good Oakham ales stuff is. And that is appalling given the qualities and frequency with which I used to drink it, in the barge.

Cheers!

 

[An Ankoù]

Oh do give it a rest.
You've well and truly lost all your other arguments so now you're taking refuge in exports? Who are the great exporters? Asahi, Carlsberg et al ? So they make better beer than trad brewers do they?

Thought for the day.
If you don't buy crushed grain, if you let the air circulate round it, if you buy it the day it comes out of the kiln and if you share it with your pigeons, You Too Can Brew Beer Like Carlsberg.
(Probably the best beer in the world) I'd forgotten that, so there you are @foxy, you were right all along. QED.


Where's my can of Special Brew gone?

 

[An Ankoù]

On another note. I'd save my pennies if I were you. We're having a shi'ite summer and things don't look like improving much.