Using beer gas with a corny keg.

[bez]

Can you use beer gas instead of CO2 with a normal corny keg homebrew system

 

[Graz]

By beer gas I'm assuming you mean a nitrogen / carbon dioxide mix. You can use it but you need a different regulator and it's not quite as easy to hold of as CO2. Straight CO2 is generally considered to be the best option for home brewers.

 

[bez]

By beer gas I'm assuming you mean a nitrogen / carbon dioxide mix. You can use it but you need a different regulator and it's not quite as easy to hold of as CO2. Straight CO2 is generally considered to be the best option for home brewers.

I imagine the beer gas gives A creamier feel like with guiness

 

[peebee]

I imagine the beer gas gives A creamier feel like with guiness

No! There's far more to the Guinness malarky than connecting up a tank of mixed gas.

Some folk will possibly argue with me? But one thing your beer might benefit from using mixed gas is a much lower carbonation (CO2) content.

 

[bez]

No! There's far more to the Guinness malarky than connecting up a tank of mixed gas.

Some folk will possibly argue with me? But one thing your beer might benefit from using mixed gas is a much lower carbonation (CO2) content.

I prefer smooth flow pasteurised beers

not sure how they get the real ales so smooth

 

[foxbat]

No! There's far more to the Guinness malarky than connecting up a tank of mixed gas.

Some folk will possibly argue with me? But one thing your beer might benefit from using mixed gas is a much lower carbonation (CO2) content.

As I recall it you carbonate with pure CO2 then push the beer with the mix. A restrictor plate in a special tap knocks out the CO2 from solution with the insoluble N2 pushing it out into the glass. Am I on the right lines with that?

 

[Joust]

I've been using 60% co2 and 40% nitrogen.
It's fizzy enough and creamy enough for what I drink

 

[bez]

I've been using 60% co2 and 40% nitrogen.
It's fizzy enough and creamy enough for what I drink

I think beer gas is 70 30. Can you get different ratios.

 

[Joust]

I think beer gas is 70 30. Can you get different ratios.

I think it's 70% nitrogen though, right?

 

[bez]

I've been using 60% co2 and 40% nitrogen.
It's fizzy enough and creamy enough for what I drink

Do you use a normsl
Regulator

 

[Joust]

Do you use a normsl
Regulator

I'm not sure what normal is.
But mine connects to a female socket on the cylinder. I picked my regulator up for a tenner locally on eBay.

 

[peebee]

As I recall it you carbonate with pure CO2 then push the beer with the mix. A restrictor plate in a special tap knocks out the CO2 from solution with the insoluble N2 pushing it out into the glass. Am I on the right lines with that?

It's all about "partial pressure" which isn't as complex as it sounds. Okay, a little bit complex 'cos we have to start thinking in absolute pressure, as if we're in a spaceship and there is a vacuum all around us (some say I am in a spaceship but they are just being rude). If you've carbonated a beer with pure CO2 to about 4 volumes at 6°C (mega-fizzy at 30PSIG, or what the gauge says which isn't absolute pressure but pressure relative to atmospheric pressure on the ground) and then switch to 50/50 mixed gas at the same pressure … Ah bums, this "not as complex as it sounds" is disintegrating all about me!

So this 30+15PSI (PSIA for "absolute" if you like … 15 is actually 14.7, or atmospheric pressure) of mixed gas is exactly the same as applying (30+15)÷2PSI (or 50%) of pure CO2, or else 7.5PSIG of pure CO2. So the beer immediately starts losing the 2 volumes of excess CO2 dissolved in it.

At such high pressures and low temperatures the nitrogen will reluctantly dissolve in the beer. It reluctantly comes out of solution too, and in very small bubbles, so helps maintain the thick head.

The restrictor plate, like a super-duper "sparkler" tap attachment, does cause the CO2 to be knocked out of solution in very small bubbles too.

I don't think you can force nitrogen to dissolve without a special "device". So if you want nitrogen to dissolve I think you need time as well as cold and pressure.

… not sure how they get the real ales so smooth …

Because "Real Ale" doesn't contain such vast amounts of prickly, acid-forming CO2. Actually "stout" reacts really badly to excess CO2 as well, so mixed gas "for stout" bumps up the nitrogen to 70% or 75% so there is less CO2 dissolved. People drinking keg pale beers have been more indoctrinated to fizzy, acid beer so they bump the CO2 up to 60%.

Guinness were clever with introducing nitrogen. Their marketing guys convinced their drinkers they need to drink Guinness cold. "Real" Guinness did not need to be cold.

 

[bez]

It's all about "partial pressure" which isn't as complex as it sounds. Okay, a little bit complex 'cos we have to start thinking in absolute pressure, as if we're in a spaceship and there is a vacuum all around us (some say I am in a spaceship but they are just being rude). If you've carbonated a beer with pure CO2 to about 4 volumes at 6°C (mega-fizzy at 30PSIG, or what the gauge says which isn't absolute pressure but pressure relative to atmospheric pressure on the ground) and then switch to 50/50 mixed gas at the same pressure … Ah bums, this "not as complex as it sounds" is disintegrating all about me!

So this 30+15PSI (PSIA for "absolute" if you like … 15 is actually 14.7, or atmospheric pressure) of mixed gas is exactly the same as applying (30+15)÷2PSI (or 50%) of pure CO2, or else 7.5PSIG of pure CO2. So the beer immediately starts losing the 2 volumes of excess CO2 dissolved in it.

At such high pressures and low temperatures the nitrogen will reluctantly dissolve in the beer. It reluctantly comes out of solution too, and in very small bubbles, so helps maintain the thick head.

The restrictor plate, like a super-duper "sparkler" tap attachment, does cause the CO2 to be knocked out of solution in very small bubbles too.

I don't think you can force nitrogen to dissolve without a special "device". So if you want nitrogen to dissolve I think you need time as well as cold and pressure.


Because "Real Ale" doesn't contain such vast amounts of prickly, acid-forming CO2. Actually "stout" reacts really badly to excess CO2 as well, so mixed gas "for stout" bumps up the nitrogen to 70% or 75% so there is less CO2 dissolved. People drinking keg pale beers have been more indoctrinated to fizzy, acid beer so they bump the CO2 up to 60%.

Guinness were clever with introducing nitrogen. Their marketing guys convinced their drinkers they need to drink Guinness cold. "Real" Guinness did not need to be cold.

So you are saying the nitrogen displaced from solution half the CO2. Surely this would only occur if nitrogen was more soluble.

 

[Joust]

It makes sense.

If you've got half as much carbon dioxide then you should expect half as much carbonation... (Under the same temperature and pressure conditions). Right?

The nitrogen doesn't dissolve in the beer, but it definitely is "in" the beer and the little bubbles make a fancy head and a smooth mouth feel.

 

[peebee]

So you are saying the nitrogen displaced from solution half the CO2. Surely this would only occur if nitrogen was more soluble.

Ah, apologies. I wasn't doing a good job of easily explaining "partial pressure". But not bad for someone described as SMI* (UK translation please if you look it up, the American translation would seem to label me as a homicidal maniac!).

The nitrogen won't displace the CO2. Partial pressure dictates that each component operates individually in the proportion it is available at. So replacing 45PSI(A) of CO2 with 45PSI(A) of 50/50 mixed gas will be the same as replacing it with 22.5PSI(A) CO2 (i.e. 50% of 45PSI).

And it won't happen immediately 'cos the 100% CO2 in the keg has to be slowly diluted with the mixed gas as beer is drawn out. A job that can never be completed.


* "How can that be and write a post with all that math in it?" you might ask. Very complex subject and if you were to think like that it will be prejudice ideas inserting themselves without you thinking about it. <End of Public Information Bulletin>.

 

[Ashman]

I went for a mixed gas regulator and bought an argon to co2 Cylinder adaptor so hopefully have both optionS If as upthread note I can’t get mixed gas. I’m Planning to drive through a restrictor tap though I’m a little wary of the adaptor for CO2

 

[bez]

Ah, apologies. I wasn't doing a good job of easily explaining "partial pressure". But not bad for someone described as SMI* (UK translation please if you look it up, the American translation would seem to label me as a homicidal maniac!).

The nitrogen won't displace the CO2. Partial pressure dictates that each component operates individually in the proportion it is available at. So replacing 45PSI(A) of CO2 with 45PSI(A) of 50/50 mixed gas will be the same as replacing it with 22.5PSI(A) CO2 (i.e. 50% of 45PSI).

And it won't happen immediately 'cos the 100% CO2 in the keg has to be slowly diluted with the mixed gas as beer is drawn out. A job that can never be completed.


* "How can that be and write a post with all that math in it?" you might ask. Very complex subject and if you were to think like that it will be prejudice ideas inserting themselves without you thinking about it. <End of Public Information Bulletin>.

Thanks for the info. I’m a bit lost. lol.

 

[bez]

O

I went for a mixed gas regulator and bought an argon to co2 Cylinder adaptor so hopefully have both optionS If as upthread note I can’t get mixed gas. I’m Planning to drive through a restrictor tap though I’m a little wary of the adaptor for CO2

thats an interesting idea

 

[Frog 1]

I was about to start a post about something similar, saw this so thought I'd jump right in, unfortunately not with advice but more questions.

So... I've been sat on a stout for a few weeks now, fermenting away nicely, probably didn't have enough yeast, shoulda made a starter, anyway.... it's a mocca stout, has some 85% fancy chocolate in and a nice jug of freshly ground espresso added too, grain used included some chocolate, roasted barley and a cafe grain, this has created a nice tasting brew, planning to add some vanilla at the end.

My plan all along was to keg this batch using beer gas, 70% nitro, 30% Co2. I've been spending quite a bit whilst locked down and bored browsing beer sites on equipment, this includes a 19ltr corny keg, Co2 and nitro regulators, small 5ltr growler setup, even bought a new fridge to play with lager fermenting and keg storage, picked up 2 x 10ltr gas bottles yesterday so I can do nitro and force carb IPA's with C02... if my wife finds out how much I'm spending I'm in trouble.

The thing is, after buying all this stuff, I have to admit not really knowing what I should be doing. I've got force carbing IPA's in my head okay, but I have to admit to not being too sure what I do with the Stout. I'm thinking just keg it, chill, pressurise with nitro beer gas and pour, but something is telling me I don't have it quite right, not sure what it is, just a niggle, maybe I've read too much or watched too many you tube videos, I might be over thinking things, so any comments would be appreciated.

If there is anybody there who does this a lot, please give me a steer.

Cheers.

 

[bez]

I was about to start a post about something similar, saw this so thought I'd jump right in, unfortunately not with advice but more questions.

So... I've been sat on a stout for a few weeks now, fermenting away nicely, probably didn't have enough yeast, shoulda made a starter, anyway.... it's a mocca stout, has some 85% fancy chocolate in and a nice jug of freshly ground espresso added too, grain used included some chocolate, roasted barley and a cafe grain, this has created a nice tasting brew, planning to add some vanilla at the end.

My plan all along was to keg this batch using beer gas, 70% nitro, 30% Co2. I've been spending quite a bit whilst locked down and bored browsing beer sites on equipment, this includes a 19ltr corny keg, Co2 and nitro regulators, small 5ltr growler setup, even bought a new fridge to play with lager fermenting and keg storage, picked up 2 x 10ltr gas bottles yesterday so I can do nitro and force carb IPA's with C02... if my wife finds out how much I'm spending I'm in trouble.

The thing is, after buying all this stuff, I have to admit not really knowing what I should be doing. I've got force carbing IPA's in my head okay, but I have to admit to not being too sure what I do with the Stout. I'm thinking just keg it, chill, pressurise with nitro beer gas and pour, but something is telling me I don't have it quite right, not sure what it is, just a niggle, maybe I've read too much or watched too many you tube videos, I might be over thinking things, so any comments would be appreciated.

If there is anybody there who does this a lot, please give me a steer.

Cheers.

That is pretty much what I did just finished the kegarator. Great minds.