Use of hops to extract specific flavours

[hoppyscotty]

When you look on the hop suppliers websites against specific hops they offer up a range of flavours whcih might say something like Dank, earthy and tropical with stone fruit. Clearly a description like that covers a very broad range of flavour profiles, so if I, for example, wanted to brew a classic west coast IPA with a good hit of dank but with lighter fruity hit too then I would imagine I would select hops that have those flavours listed in their profiles, then decide where in the process to use them.

My assumption has been that if you want to extract the heavier flavours like dank, earthy, spicy, then you probably want to add them late in the boil and at whirlpool, but if you wanted to pull out more of the lighter fruity/citrous/stone fruit flavours then just whirlpool and dry hop. My assumption behind this is that the lighter fruitier notes wont last so long and will be driven off if you add on the hot side but the heavier flavours can survive the higher temperatures and come through to the final beer.

So for example if I wanted a dank west coast with tropical fruit I might load up with hops like centennial, Citra in the late boil and whirlpool to target dankness, but add say higher amounts of NZ hops in the whirlpool and dry hop if I wanted to layer tropical flavours on top? I've done NEIPA styles before with very little, if any, hop additions on the hot side, but large whirlpool and dry hop additions and I have definitely extracted the more fruity flavours and less of the heavier flavours.

Is there truth in this or is it some daft hypothesis I've dreamt up? Thanks.

 

[YeastFace]

I think there's something in that, but also those flavours derive from different compounds (terpenes) - myrcene (which in your pine/dank), geraniol (floral), linalool (citrus), farnesene (woody). Hops have these in different concentrations so that goes some way to explaining. Maybe experiment with the same hops in the same beer, one with late hops and one with whirlpool hops?

On a bit of a tangent Scott Janish cites a paper here which suggests that in dry-hopping linalool and geraniol are extracted more quickly than myrcene, so a short dry-hop may help elevate those fruit aromas. He's written a lot on hops (has a book called The New IPA) so his blog is well worth a read and he may have covered your question.

 

[hoppyscotty]

Ahh, I have Scott Janish's book but not quite yet finished reading it. But I have recently started limiting my dry hop time to 24 - 36 hours for those lighter flavours and seems to have worked. But I'm currently working on a recipe for a proper classic west coast so want a good dank/pine hit but with some lighter fruitier flavours and just pondering where to add which hops.

I tend to repeat recipes I like and make small changes to develop them to hit something I want, but always try to get as close as possible to what I'm after from the get go as multiple iterations just takes time and I'm too inpatient for that!!! But useful executive summary there and something for me to work from. I'll have to find my Scott Janish book now and crack on finishing it.

 

[Clint]

I suspect that commercial breweries are subjecting their hops to different processes.

 

[The Baron]

I only use Whirlpool and dry hops and have started going lower than the usual 80c whirlpool temp to 65c.
The reason I have done that is when I use 80c with a large whirlpool and a lets say 80g dry hop too I have suffered from more bitterness than I like so I have made the dry hop smaller but this did not give the full punch to a fresh beer. My latest is the 65c whirlpool so that i can up the dry hop back upto the 80g mark, I also have started to use Aromazyme which from my first impressions does help but further brews will be done to confirm this.
This is a lift from CML
Aromazyme. The application of Aromazyme during fermentation improves hop utilization by releasing additional volatile aroma compounds, thereby decreasing overall hop quantities or using less sophisticated hop varieties. Basically it means more hop aroma. The recommended dosage is 5g/hL (1g per 20 litres). Dilute the enzyme in an adequate amount of water (~ 1g in 10ml) to ensure even distribution within the fermenter.

 

[Brewelder]

When you look on the hop suppliers websites against specific hops they offer up a range of flavours whcih might say something like Dank, earthy and tropical with stone fruit. Clearly a description like that covers a very broad range of flavour profiles, so if I, for example, wanted to brew a classic west coast IPA with a good hit of dank but with lighter fruity hit too then I would imagine I would select hops that have those flavours listed in their profiles, then decide where in the process to use them.

My assumption has been that if you want to extract the heavier flavours like dank, earthy, spicy, then you probably want to add them late in the boil and at whirlpool, but if you wanted to pull out more of the lighter fruity/citrous/stone fruit flavours then just whirlpool and dry hop. My assumption behind this is that the lighter fruitier notes wont last so long and will be driven off if you add on the hot side but the heavier flavours can survive the higher temperatures and come through to the final beer.

So for example if I wanted a dank west coast with tropical fruit I might load up with hops like centennial, Citra in the late boil and whirlpool to target dankness, but add say higher amounts of NZ hops in the whirlpool and dry hop if I wanted to layer tropical flavours on top? I've done NEIPA styles before with very little, if any, hop additions on the hot side, but large whirlpool and dry hop additions and I have definitely extracted the more fruity flavours and less of the heavier flavours.

Is there truth in this or is it some daft hypothesis I've dreamt up? Thanks.

When you say “large amounts” in the whirlpool additions in your NEIPA\s, what do you class as large?

I’m working through my recipe today for a brew tomorrow (sunday). It’s a first for me as i normally buy all grain kits with the recipe already worked out by someone else, but for this one (Neipa style) I’m using left over grains/malts from previous brews, plus I’ve been collecting hops and have Amarillo, Admiral, Citra, Chinook, Cascade and Nelson Sauvignon in my collection. Oh, and Verdant yeast.

 

[hoppyscotty]

When you say “large amounts” in the whirlpool additions in your NEIPA\s, what do you class as large?

I’m working through my recipe today for a brew tomorrow (sunday). It’s a first for me as i normally buy all grain kits with the recipe already worked out by someone else, but for this one (Neipa style) I’m using left over grains/malts from previous brews, plus I’ve been collecting hops and have Amarillo, Admiral, Citra, Chinook, Cascade and Nelson Sauvignon in my collection. Oh, and Verdant yeast.

For a 20 litre batch I’ve used upto 150g of hops before via a hop rocket/missile, but for a more conventional hopstand/whirlpool a really hoppy beer like a neipa I’ll use about 80g or so in the whirlpool at 75 degrees for 20 mins. I do a regular pale ale with no dry hop that uses about 80g in the hopstand and it defiantly comes out hoppy but a bit more malt/hop balance. I’m a conventional hopstand/whirlpool I’m convinced you loose a lot to evaporation which is why I’m playing with the hop rocket.