Unmalted wheat

[cheapbrew]

Being the mill manager at a watermill I have access to unmalted wheat, and I can mill it myself no problem, its Hereward, a hard, high protein (13.2%) No 1 milling bread wheat.

Now I've seen some recipes using malted wheat and also read about using unmalted wheat, sometimes at up to 40%, but usually up to 15% and this is said to help with head retention, but higher percentages can cause cloudiness.

My question is, Can you use 100% unmalted wheat and has anyone done this?

 

[MyQul]

According to Brupaks grain guide most unmalted grains have a maximum percentage of 10%

http://www.brupaks.com/BRUPAKS GRAIN GUIDE WEB.htm

 

[Tony1951]

The problem is something called 'Diastatic Power' which is about the quantity of amylase enzymes in the grain. These enzymes are what we use during the mash and they break down the starch in the grain into different kinds of sugars. Malting is what increases the presence of these enzymes so that after mashing, we end up with fermentable sugars in the wort rather than just uncoverted starch.

Unmalted grains won't convert into sugars. You can still use unmalted wheat to add some body and head frothing character to your beer but not a lot.

I actually added a third of unmalted crushed milling wheat to a couple of my early AG brews in the summer and one of them didn't convert at all, which was a nit surprising since there probably should have been enough alpha and beta amylase in the pale malt that made up 2/3 of the grains. The other one converted a bit. I had wheat flavoured lower alcohol beers than I was expecting.

This page has some info about Diastatic Power.

http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/01/04/diastatic-power-and-mashing-your-beer/

Cheers

EDIT: Actually I just remembered the second of my brews was made with malted wheat which I bought for a couple of quid per pound at the home brew shop. That one converted some but the first unmalted one didn't.

 

[cheapbrew]

Cheers folks, maybe I'll try 10% in one of future brews as an experiment.

 

[Tony1951]

Cheers folks, maybe I'll try 10% in one of future brews as an experiment.

It will add an interesting taste to the beer.

Must be a fun job that Cheapbrew. Does your mill send grains to buyers? If so, how much? I am nearly at the end of my wheat stock. I bought a hand mill a while back and about 25kg of grain. I only have about 3kg left. I used to grind it and make bread. The shine soon went of the grinding lark. Quite a lot of effort for a loaf of bread. A far harder grain than the malts I have ground up.

Now I tend to use the grain in soups. I just steep it whole for an hour or two and then add it to vegetable soups I make sometimes. 150 grammes of wheat berries (as the Americans call them) adds a whole lot of feeding to a soup. Quite rustic.

 

[dufresne]

Couldn't you malt it yourself?

Edit...sure it's easier said than done. But has anyone on here tried their own malting?

 

[cheapbrew]

Yes its great when the mill is working and milling wheat, and the visiting public love it too.

here is a short video of the mill [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJM1aiJ9ZHs[/ame]

As for sending wheat the postage cost will double the price of the wheat, but if you really want some I'm sure we could work something out

 

[Tony1951]

Yes its great when the mill is working and milling wheat, and the visiting public love it too.

here is a short video of the mill

As for sending wheat the postage cost will double the price of the wheat, but if you really want some I'm sure we could work something out

Great video that Cheapbrew. Watched the whole thing. Iam fancying getting out my hand mill and making a loaf tomorrow. SWIMBO makes wholemeal in a breadmaker every day, which is OK but to be honest I fancy doing the whole thing and digging out a loaf tin for the old fashioned way.

You are probably right about the cost of postage. You can get milling wheat on ebay, but I once got some that tasted like silage smells and had to give it to a mate who keeps chickens - well I sold the 25KG to him for twelve quid which was more or less the feed wheat price at the time. I wonder what you fellahs pay for your wheat for a 25kg bag?

 

[YeastFace]

40/45% in a witbier. Pretty sure it's used as a decent percentage of the grist in lambic too.

 

[Tony1951]

40/45% in a witbier. Pretty sure it's used as a decent percentage of the grist in lambic too.

Is that un-malted, yeastface?

 

[cheapbrew]

Glad you liked the video, the hand quern that you see at 3 mins 58 secs is what I used to grind some wheat when I was testing the mash size for my net curtain and pot.

I've looked at the crushed grain I bought and there are quite a few whole grains in there, I think it must be harder to get the sugar out from whole grains so I may run it through the hand quern, unless its better with some left whole still?

Prices have fallen recently and good milling wheat usually averages around £125 per tonne, so 12.5p per kilo, I believe malting barley commands slightly better price than wheat.

I mix my dough in the breadmaker for 5 mins then pull it out and work a little olive oil over it and leave to prove, then after its proved, take it and fold it in on itself five or six times then put into tins and the once risen again into oven to bake, if I have all day I'll do several proving stages.

I watched a baking program that said victorian bakers used brewery yeast so I'm gonna try some yeast from after fermentation and see how it goes.

 

[YeastFace]

Is that un-malted, yeastface?

Yes, unmalted. It's the high protein content which gives the trademark cloudiness.

 

[cheapbrew]

Interesting, thank you yeastface, similar to the 40% which I read somewhere, I will have to have another goggle methinks.

 

[cheapbrew]

Couldn't you malt it yourself?

Edit...sure it's easier said than done. But has anyone on here tried their own malting?

Yes you could, but its quite a bit of messin about, I bookmarked this page and may give it a go one day.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=322877

 

[Tony1951]

Glad you liked the video, the hand quern that you see at 3 mins 58 secs is what I used to grind some wheat when I was testing the mash size for my net curtain and pot.

I've looked at the crushed grain I bought and there are quite a few whole grains in there, I think it must be harder to get the sugar out from whole grains so I may run it through the hand quern, unless its better with some left whole still?

Prices have fallen recently and good milling wheat usually averages around ��£125 per tonne, so 12.5p per kilo, I believe malting barley commands slightly better price than wheat.

I mix my dough in the breadmaker for 5 mins then pull it out and work a little olive oil over it and leave to prove, then after its proved, take it and fold it in on itself five or six times then put into tins and the once risen again into oven to bake, if I have all day I'll do several proving stages.

I watched a baking program that said victorian bakers used brewery yeast so I'm gonna try some yeast from after fermentation and see how it goes.

�£0.125 a kilo! Wow was I ripped off on my sack. I could make a loaf for 6p at that price,, BeJesus! I could live for free and spend more on brewing.:)

If it wasn't a pain in the butt I'd happily pay twice that plus carriage for a 20kilo bag mate.Having said that, I expect it would be a nuisance to you so don't worry if your heart is sinking at the prospect. :)

Beer bread? nice idea. I bet it would change the character of the loaf.

I think there is something grounding about going through these ancient processes yourself, interacting with the ancient life sustaining materials - wheat, dough, barley, mash, beer.... Love it. Your average Tudor housewife would have been doing the same things, even if she didn't have a breadmaker or plastic fermentation tubs. Back then, your farmer's wife made a gallon of beer a day for everybody that worked on the farm. Mostly it wasn't strong beer, but beer nonetheless. It would be a laugh to try it with the equipment they used. I don't know whether you ever saw that Tudor Monastery Farm TV programme http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01k3b96 where Ruth Goodman made beer from her own barley. She malted it, ground it and brewed it from scratch with authentic gear. I can't remember if they used a quern or not. The programme is on Youtube somewhere, but the sound quality is bad.

 

[simon12]

Modern pale malts have enough enzymes to convert double there weight, so in theory you can use up to 50% unmalted grains and still get full conversion. But this is in ideal conditions (ie PH temp etc) so for most home brewers 20% is a better no to work with. You could add enzymes to use over 50% but that would require experimentation.

 

[cheapbrew]

Tony,

we could do you 25kg bag for a fiver and the courier cost would be about £15 if that is any good?

 

[Tony1951]

Tony,

we could do you 25kg bag for a fiver and the courier cost would be about ���£15 if that is any good?

Done mate!!

BUT - only if its not a pain. I really don't want to put you to trouble.

Is that a full time mill you work at or a volunteer project. It looks great fun. Those Tudor Monastery bbc programmes have a windmill in them if you're interested. Maybe you saw them already. If you are interested check out here:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLyw6w-UH6U[/ame]

At 20:30 is some info about malting and making beer, and at 22:30 they go into the working of a windmill and grind some wheat. At a touch after 32:00 Ruth Goodman does more on beer making.

Actually, if you are interested in malting, I think Ruth Goodman goes more into the process nearer the start of the video so maybe watch it from the beginning.

 

[cheapbrew]

Tony have you got paypal account? and PM me an address and I'll get this posted off to you monday or tuesday

The watermill is not commercial we are just a part time historic mill demonstrating stoneground flour milling.

I don't really watch much tel lie vision too much brainwashing and bbc lies, I prefer too find my own stuff to watch on my PC, but I think I saw some of the Monastery farm but remember nothing about brewing or milling so I'll check it out, cheers amigo.

 

[Tony1951]

Tony have you got paypal account? and PM me an address and I'll get this posted off to you monday or tuesday

The watermill is not commercial we are just a part time historic mill demonstrating stoneground flour milling.

I don't really watch much tel lie vision too much brainwashing and bbc lies, I prefer too find my own stuff to watch on my PC, but I think I saw some of the Monastery farm but remember nothing about brewing or milling so I'll check it out, cheers amigo.

Your'e a star mate! Thanks a million.

I will paypal the money as soon as you confirm the charge. Very happy with that. Name your price mate. :) PM coming next.

Just ground 500g of what I had left, mixed and needed and waiting for the stuff to rise. Guess what I am having for breakfast tomorrow.