Trump v Biden.

[moto748]

I am a labour voter but I heard nothing from the new leader that would make me vote for them I will never vote Tory so until either Labour get their **** into gear and give us something we can vote for or a proper alternative to the main two comes along I won't be voting.

I don't understand the logic here.

"I won't vote; that'll teach them!"

Yeah, right!

Also, didn't you read Starmer's 14000 word essay the other day? TBF, I didn't. But I did read about it, and what it didn't say.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-pledges-jeremy-corbyn-b1925089.html
I share your lack of enthusiasm for Labour, but I'll be voting. Every chance i get.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

"I won't vote; that'll teach them!"

Its not a case of "i wont vote that will teach them" its a case of i wont blindly vote for Labour just because i have voted for them in the past, i listened to most of his conference speech and all he did was try to put over how working class he is, i couldn't care less how working class he considers himself i want to know how he is going to sort the infighting that has ruined the labour party that i used to vote for, I liked Corbyn and they outed him it wont be long until they do the same to this fellow.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Also, didn't you read Starmer's 14000 word essay the other day? TBF, I didn't. But I did read about it, and what it didn't say.

I didn't use the link as its behind a paywall so i have posted this, my question is how are they going to pay for this?

One way would be to scrap HS2 and give the billions of pounds saved to the people that need it instead of using it to save a very small percentage of the population a bit of time on rail journeys he missed a huge trick there.


https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/

 

[moto748]

I think when we come to vote, we should vote for the least bad. No one party or candidate is going to be prefect for for every voter. I'm as unimpressed by Starmer as you are, Chippy. But I'll continue to take any chance I get to vote against Johnson.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I think when we come to vote, we should vote for the least bad.

I think we should all have to vote even if it means ones that don't want to spoil the paper.

No one party or candidate is going to be prefect for for every voter. I'm as unimpressed by Starmer as you are, Chippy

I will wait and see how things pan out and if i like what i hear i will vote.

 

[DavidDetroit]

Voting for the least bad is sadly funny. Voting for the lesser of two evils. Same thing.
Two elections ago, millions didn't vote, myself included, because they weren't thrilled with a particular candidate. The propaganda did as it was supposed to--disenchant people and make them stay home.
In our system, any vote not for one of the two major opponents in a presidential election is a throw-away vote (person voting their conscience or voting for a minor candidate in their party as a protest). It's not right but it is the situation. I have often not voted in the past and that's on me.

 

[moto748]

Voting for the least bad is sadly funny. Voting for the lesser of two evils. Same thing.

Except it's not the same thing at all, is it, David? We all (well, many of us) have a check-list on our heads for parties, candidates: what's their view on nationalisation? Taxing the rich? Proportional representation? The funding of local government? Black Lives Matter?

No party or candidate is going to tick all our boxes. Unless you want to stand yourself!

It's a case of voting for the 'better' people. Just like Biden's people are better than Trump's people.

 

[DavidDetroit]

Unless you want to stand yourself!

An excellent idea!
Kidding aside, I think we're talking about the same thing. I might have come off a little pessimistic.
What I'm saying is, if I wasn't keen on voting for President Biden but was very against 45,* I'm choosing the "less bad" or "lesser of two evils." One will do less harm to the country while in office. Did I sacrifice my integrity? No, I chose the best, least harmful option available to me.
It's been thrown around here that the very best people are not the choices we get. I think that's true.

 

[foxy]

An excellent idea!
Kidding aside, I think we're talking about the same thing. I might have come off a little pessimistic.
What I'm saying is, if I wasn't keen on voting for President Biden but was very against 45,* I'm choosing the "less bad" or "lesser of two evils." One will do less harm to the country while in office. Did I sacrifice my integrity? No, I chose the best, least harmful option available to me.
It's been thrown around here that the very best people are not the choices we get. I think that's true.

Your right, Biden certainly isn't the best, but what he is doing well at is ensuring that if Trump does run again it will be a walkover. I will vote for whichever party will serve my needs the best, not a one eyed approach. It is usually the conservative party, but Labor can come up with some bonus offerings. Using their love of throwing other peoples money around. I installed solar in 2009 on my roof, so as well as having free electricity I was paid 64 cents /kwh for what I fed into the grid. This is when the cost of electricity was around 16 to 18 cents /kwh my contract runs out in 2024. Who ends up funding my rebates? The poor folk who couldn't afford to put solar on their roof, the ones who voted Labor. Now I have to keep my state labor party in office until 2024 as they are offering batteries at 50% off. Got to love Labor for some of their schemes.

 

[Irishwizard]

In exchange for the NHS.

Thats plainly not true and there is no evidence for it. In fact the last Labour Gov. allowed an American company to build hospitals in the UK to cherry pick the quick easy surgery to make money. They got paid millions for doing nothing in the first year, under the contract, and then sold the contract to Care UK, which was in turn bought up by Blackstone. The result was that the NHS ended up with all the difficult expensive, labour intensive cases. I worked for them!! So I know the ins and outs of all this political shenanigans. The South Africans and Blackstone made huge profits and investors were making at least 20 pc on their investments. I was there and a part of all this - me, guilty!

 

[moto748]

if Trump does run again it will be a walkover.

Doesn't it absolutely horrify you that any sentient person could vote for that dismal crook and shyster?

I mean, if you back Trump, people have to fall into one of two categories: either you agree he's a crook, but you're OK with that, or you don't believe he is a crook, you think he has been cruelly maligned by the evil Establishment.

 

[DavidDetroit]

either you agree he's a crook, but you're OK with that, or you don't believe he is a crook, you think he has been cruelly maligned by the evil Establishment.

As I've said a few times, I've stopped politics and all news really, for months now. Back when I was neck deep in it, that question (how or why would anyone in their right mind vote for 45*, under any circumstance?) rattled me deeply, caused me to question our population's sanity.
If the criminal, 45*, does run again, the vast majority will again unite behind the Democrat, no matter who it is, and it will probably be an even bigger blowout.
The new voters coming of age here are more interested in their futures and greatly tend toward liberal.

 

[foxy]

Doesn't it absolutely horrify you that any sentient person could vote for that dismal crook and shyster?

I mean, if you back Trump, people have to fall into one of two categories: either you agree he's a crook, but you're OK with that, or you don't believe he is a crook, you think he has been cruelly maligned by the evil Establishment.

It matters not what is thought about Trump. What matters is when you have a none performer in office, who's popularity is in free fall then the voters will go for the alternative.

 

[HSD]

I think you are right Rich.
I am a labour voter but I heard nothing from the new leader that would make me vote for them I will never vote Tory so until either Labour get their **** into gear and give us something we can vote for or a proper alternative to the main two comes along I won't be voting.

By not voting you are effectively voting Tory, every vote counts to get them out, surely a labour government even with a leader you don’t particularly like is more palatable than the present shower?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Doesn't it absolutely horrify you that any sentient person could vote for that dismal crook and shyster?

What it demonstrates is they don't have an alternative.

 

[DavidDetroit]

What it demonstrates is they don't have an alternative

I respect you, see that you think things through.
Trump is not and never was a sane choice. He is not and never could be an alternative for any office. A puppy who piddles on the floor is less dangerous, period.
Why? Because the puppy can at least be taught not to piddle on the floor.

 

[Bernie]

No party or candidate is going to tick all our boxes. Unless you want to stand yourself!

That's not how an elected government is supposed to work. One is elected to represent the electorate, generally, with policies that are popular with one's electors but there is a responsibility to the electorate as a whole. Voters don't understand that this responsibility may not be popular.

There's a quotation attributed to Alexander Tyler:
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”

It's a case of voting for the 'better' people. Just like Biden's people are better than Trump's people.

What makes you think that?

 

[johnny108]

Everyone?
Please stop.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

expand...

By not voting you are effectively voting Tory, every vote counts to get them out, surely a labour government even with a leader you don’t particularly like is more palatable than the present shower?

I will not vote labour just because they are supposedly the opposite of the Tory party, they need to get their act together and give us a reason to vote that isn't just because the are not conservarives

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Everyone?
Please stop.

Feel free to put the thread on your ignore list.