Well you learn something every day, i use target a lot for bittering, so now i know were the harshness comes from i can try something else for comparisons or cut it down or a combination with something else
The Quest for the Perfect Bitter
- Thread starter An Ankoù
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An Ankoù
Landlord.
Amazing find. Thank you @peebee. It has always amazed me that Edd manages to formulate such precise grain bills: Vienna, Chevallier and M.O! But I think I trust Edd, he seems to know what he's talking about. As for the #4 invert, I remember I tried to make some #3 for the forum Christmas chocolate porter and ended up not using it as it was too light. I'll need to ponder this matter, but I don't think I'll be using treacle or BS molasses. In the meantime, I've descovered Lulu. Lulu, apparently, handles Ron Pattinson's books by taking your money and then printing one to order (unless I've got it wrong) and there's a nice juicy fat one called- guess what.... Bitter! A bit pricey, though. Still, it's cheaper than having the old armour reburnished and paying a squire for a year.But it was! Fireside just hasn't got the finesse of a serial thread hi-jacker like me☺
Anyway, back to your earlier post ...
I've wasted away hours yesterday getting this "perfect bitter" recipe ready to go. It's a "Victorian" recipe as you might expect, the one I mentioned earlier. Because I'm doomed to get things wrong, my "perfect bitter" will be that "mild"! Well "Victorian Mild" isn't going to be modern day mild, and this one is a OG of 1.045 even if the bitterness is pegged back to 24IBU (a bit lower than even I'd normally go to for a "bitter"). But the really concerning bit is it's a Boddington's beer! I'd need to of had a lobotomy or something to think of brewing something like that! Hang-on, someone's chatting in me ear (Wwwhat? ... I've had the "something"??? ... Oh aye). Okay, here is my worksheets (Beersmith output); it expands to full-size (PDF) it you click it:
View attachment 43327
It's Edd's researched recipe (linked above) adapted for the equipment I'll use (30L Grainfather, "full-boil-volume-mash" and "no-sparge") and adapted for the ingredients I have. Don't know what I'll do about the No.4 Invert Sugar; the "unholymess" blog site had a fabrication using golden syrup and blackstrap molasses which I can't connect to any longer, but those fabrications seem fine for No.1 and No.2 but seem unlikely for No.4 (Brewer's Invert is made from raw sugar, but I understand No.4, perhaps No.3, involves brewer's caramel colouring too?).
I'll promise to buy a local pie when it comes tasting it. That might avoid me getting another "angry face" response from Edd (self-confessed "Pie Obsessed Lancastrian" according to his Web-site).
peebee
Out of Control
Targets have another quality, especially when fresh ...
In my youth I went hop picking and Target were the most common hop on this farm. I used to filch a few bags to take back home. Beer brewed from them had a special feature that went something like ... ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz
peebee
Out of Control
It's more precise than that, I've put my take on the malts:
Actually Queen Victoria died on 22nd January 1901 so that wasn't a Victorian mild. Another of my cronological blunders!
I did dig this up from that "other" UK forum:
I'll probably go with the "No.3", and perhaps a few grams black malt if I feel the need to get the colour closer. (Need? I'm trying to pass off a mild as a bitter!
).
I have a real love/hate relationship with Target, "raspy bitterness" is a good description. I'm back in love with it now and my last few brews have been bittered with it, in fact my Guinness clone is just a single-hop 60min addition to 45IBU. Challenger and Fuggles are good alternative that are less harsh.
Pezza24
Regular.
Posted this in the wrong thread somehow.
I'll say one thing for the Beoir yeast. It's very quick to get going. I pitched it about 7am and it was bubbling away by lunchtime and it's really going for it now.
I'll say one thing for the Beoir yeast. It's very quick to get going. I pitched it about 7am and it was bubbling away by lunchtime and it's really going for it now.
An Ankoù
Landlord.
Just received 5 sachets, never used it before. I'm thinking of doing a Summer Lightning with it. The mash has just gone in the tun so I've got until tomorrow to make up my mind. I'm taking this to be the same sort of yeast you used to be able to recover from a bottle of Guinness. But I really got it to make up @Dads_Ale 's recipe, above.
Read that the CML beior is Mauribrew so how could it be from Guinness bottle?
Pezza24
Regular.
It says Irish and Scottish ale yeast on the pack?
Pezza24
Regular.
Just did some Google translate and as I slightly suspected it means beer in Gaelic.
An Ankoù
Landlord.
I didn't know it was Mauribrew. Are you sure of that? Not that I've an axe to grind one way or the other. It was just a guess.
Just had a look at the Mauribrew specs at Brouwland and none of them seem to fit the bill for an Irish/Scotish yeast, but who knows.
Definitely read it somewhere...
Though Edward VII wasn't crowned until 9 August 1902 so you're fine.
Perrin_Abara
Well-Known Member
Lees's is usual bang on. I'm too young but my dad always speaks highly of OB Bitter. (oldham brewery)
I have the impression that this goes for many (all) hops. I always sleep better when I drink a hoppy beer.
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But I'm not claiming that the coarseness is because of the cohumulone - I'm trying to make the point that we can ignore anecdote about hops and cohumulone because we have proper experiments where all the other factors are controlled for. It's not even as simple as beta/alpha ratio, it's a whole mess of things affect the quality of bittering, even now there's not a definitive map of chemicals to bittering type.
But look at it another way, Admiral has very high cohumulone, one of the highest in absolute terms of any hop and higher than Target, but it's smoother than Target. Pilgrim has about the same cohumulone as Target, but is quite a lot smoother. Must admit, I've not played much with different bittering hops, I tend to use Goldings as I have a house rule that all my beers have EKG in them in some form.
peebee
Out of Control
Oops. Minor error in that PDF I posted. I hadn't entered the strike temperature in the kooky fix I concocted. I've corrected the PDF (should anybody have got the possibly daft idea of copying it).
Sadfield
Landlord.
So, the general rule of thumb that had worked for years with all its flawed science, that still manages to arrive at a useful conclusion. One hop producers still reference today. That hops higher in cohumulone will generally yield a more assertive bitterness, should be replaced with nothing? We should completely disregard the anecdotal evidence that many peoples experience correlates perception of bitterness with cohumolone levels? dispite yourself anecdotally referencing certain hops as giving harsher bitterness, without being able to qualify why.
That was a useful contribution. Thanks.
scomet
Member
Great thread An Ankou with many excellent posts. Making the Perfect Bitter? for my tastes would be a 'Yorkshire Bitter' which is a very different drink to many southern brews, I would be considered old and cut my teeth on Tetleys' Mild, Bitter and of course Mixed.
Comments I agree with include: Mash lower and longer eg. 90min at 65c top heat, keep the recipe simple, brew to your taste. I keg and bottle and both give good results, bottles need to be condition longer, Ans’ advice of bottling into large bottles and decanting into a jug works well.
What I have not seen discussed are adjuncts, Sugar being the first that comes to mind. I always use home made brewers invert #1 in my bitters, it adds a 'thinness' to the beer that I believe a good bitter should have, I would go so far to say that the use of invert sugars in the UK helped develop the style. Dont caramelise your invert it ruins the beer taste, fructose starts to caramelise at 115c. Making good invert takes a bit of time and patience.
Water? Use RO and adjust minerals to your tastes, it’s one of the major improvements i’ve made in all my beers.
Hops? Fuggles, GEK and Styrian - Fuggles being the Star
A good bitter imo is a simple, process driven beer - Cheers
Comments I agree with include: Mash lower and longer eg. 90min at 65c top heat, keep the recipe simple, brew to your taste. I keg and bottle and both give good results, bottles need to be condition longer, Ans’ advice of bottling into large bottles and decanting into a jug works well.
What I have not seen discussed are adjuncts, Sugar being the first that comes to mind. I always use home made brewers invert #1 in my bitters, it adds a 'thinness' to the beer that I believe a good bitter should have, I would go so far to say that the use of invert sugars in the UK helped develop the style. Dont caramelise your invert it ruins the beer taste, fructose starts to caramelise at 115c. Making good invert takes a bit of time and patience.
Water? Use RO and adjust minerals to your tastes, it’s one of the major improvements i’ve made in all my beers.
Hops? Fuggles, GEK and Styrian - Fuggles being the Star
A good bitter imo is a simple, process driven beer - Cheers
