The Mixed Fermentation Thread

[strange-steve]

Ah thanks, not had an Orval in years but I seem to recall I enjoyed it

May have to get some pilsner malt in as I only have a sack of maris otter and various crystal atm, but I did also get a pack of WLP550 (the Achouffe strain I think) which I could probably use as an alternative to 510 if not going for an accurate clone?

I would happily use MO if that's what I had in stock, and the 550 will do a fine job too

Does Orval have herbs in it or is the flavour coming from Brett?

Nope no herbs or spices in Orval, it's all about the brett.

 

[BeerCat]

Has anyone had any issues with lacto pills? I could not sour a starter and they had no effect on another Flanders red i brewed. I co pitched with Roeslare slurry and its done nothing.

 

[strange-steve]

Has anyone had any issues with lacto pills? I could not sour a starter and they had no effect on another Flanders red i brewed. I co pitched with Roeslare slurry and its done nothing.

Sorry I saw your post on my thread the other day and forgot to reply. What brand of pills are you using? I've used Swansons a couple of times, the second time they were actually out of date so I added 10 to the batch. It took a couple of days but they did work.

 

[BeerCat]

Sorry I saw your post on my thread the other day and forgot to reply. What brand of pills are you using? I've used Swansons a couple of times, the second time they were actually out of date so I added 10 to the batch. It took a couple of days but they did work.

No problem forgot i had asked. I bought these generic ones from ebay link here. I had no problem making a starter from Omega labs and have kept some in the fridge. I also have a fresh pack of Roeslare to try again with. The good thing about the Omega labs is that it sours at room temp and you don't need to use any lacto. I wish i had reliable info on the real AA of my aged hops.

 

[stigman]

Ah thanks, not had an Orval in years but I seem to recall I enjoyed it

Who doesn't best beer in the world.

 

[strange-steve]

No problem forgot i had asked. I bought these generic ones from ebay link here. I had no problem making a starter from Omega labs and have kept some in the fridge. I also have a fresh pack of Roeslare to try again with. The good thing about the Omega labs is that it sours at room temp and you don't need to use any lacto. I wish i had reliable info on the real AA of my aged hops.

Doesn't the Roeslare contain a lacto culture already? Are you saying the beer hasn't soured at all even with the Roeslare blend and the lacto pills combined?

 

[BeerCat]

Doesn't the Roeslare contain a lacto culture already? Are you saying the beer hasn't soured at all even with the Roeslare blend and the lacto pills combined?

The yeast already contains lacto but to get more sourness faster some people pitch extra lacto. I think the lacto was dead in the yeast though from too many IBU'S.

 

[strange-steve]

Hmm I would still have expected it to sour, that Roeslare blend contains a pedio culture which are generally pretty hop tolerant. How long ago was it pitched?

 

[BeerCat]

Hmm I would still have expected it to sour, that Roeslare blend contains a pedio culture which are generally pretty hop tolerant. How long ago was it pitched?

Only about 3 weeks ago. I shall brew another and compare the results. Cant decide if i should use 5 or 10g of hops next time.

 

[IainM]

Roeselare is notorious for taking a long time to sour though. From what I've heard 12 months is underwhelming and 18 months is about right, at least for the first time pitching. Three weeks won't cut it, though all I know is my Flander's red has been under the stairs since January and I'm trying to not think about it until spring.

 

[BeerCat]

Roeselare is notorious for taking a long time to sour though. From what I've heard 12 months is underwhelming and 18 months is about right, at least for the first time pitching. Three weeks won't cut it, though all I know is my Flander's red has been under the stairs since January and I'm trying to not think about it until spring.

Apparently it sours faster when reused. Either I used too many hops again or my lacto pills are duff. I suspect the later. I made a starter from the slurry and repitched into batch 1 and it appears to have a pellicle but it's a brown DJ sp can't see it properly.
i suppose I could try and make another starter with them or buy some different ones.

 

[IainM]

Apparently it sours faster when reused. Either I used too many hops again or my lacto pills are duff. I suspect the later. I made a starter from the slurry and repitched into batch 1 and it appears to have a pellicle but it's a brown DJ sp can't see it properly.
i suppose I could try and make another starter with them or buy some different ones.

So I've heard. Personally, I've had good experience with WildBrew Sour Pitch. It's expensive at £10 a pack, but that's enough for a hectolitre so actually it's pretty cheap and worth it for the reliability.

 

[strange-steve]

As Iain says, it's much to early to be concerned. I haven't even looked at my Flanders red since I pitched it 3 months ago, and probably won't until next year sometime.

I understand your concern about the higher than expected IBUs, but I don't think you should worry. I did the same thing with my first lambic, used too many hops and they weren't quite as debittered as I expected, and the wort was really quite bitter but it still soured after a few months.

 

[SteveH]

Thanks @strange-steve and @Sadfield for the recipe help, an Orval inspired brew it is!

Just got to figure out what I'll do the secondary in now, as I normally just do 2-week primary in a plastic FV then bottle/keg from there.

 

[BeerCat]

Blackberry sour and very sour it is too.
I co pitched a 1l starter of Omega labs lacto blend and Voss kveik at 27c. 50% wheat and pale malt. No hops with 300g of blackberries in a hop tube in the keg. Super simple no boil sour. Another grain to glass in just over a week.
One thing i have noticed is how much this soured compared to sourpitch. If i use it again will make a starter.

 

[strange-steve]

Blackberry sour and very sour it is too.
I co pitched a 1l starter of Omega labs lacto blend and Voss kveik at 27c. 50% wheat and pale malt. No hops with 300g of blackberries in a hop tube in the keg. Super simple no boil sour. Another grain to glass in just over a week.
One thing i have noticed is how much this soured compared to sourpitch. If i use it again will make a starter.
View attachment 20912

Lovely colour :thumba: My mixed berries sour is about ready too if you fancy a swap?

 

[BeerCat]

Lovely colour :thumba: My mixed berries sour is about ready too if you fancy a swap?

Would love to. I did say I would send you some beers and yeast ages ago but I got sidetracked looking for vials.

 

[strange-steve]

Would love to. I did say I would send you some beers and yeast ages ago but I got sidetracked looking for vials.

Don't worry at all mate, I still have a vial of kveik that Dan125 sent me ages ago that I haven't got round to using yet.
Are you still at the same address? I'm also going to try filling a few bottles of my 16% stout tomorrow from the corny, I'll get one of those sent out to you at the same time as promised many months ago. I've never bottled from the keg before so I don't know what the carbonation will be like when you get it

 

[SteveH]

Possibly dumb question, can you repitch brett from batch to batch? I assume so but unclear on the process, does it settle out like normal Sacch yeast does?

Reason for asking is I got impatient and pitched the WLP650 into a gallon of marmalade IPA which was quite possibly a silly idea, but the large quantity of orange has sent it in a weird-funky direction already so I figured why not.

Can I use that as a large "starter" (it's been decanted off the primary yeast cake), leave it for a month or so, then bottle and pitch the dregs into something else?

As you can probably tell, I have no idea what I'm doing!

 

[Sadfield]

Yes, repitch away. A small amount of the trub will do. My method for my Brett Claussenii secondary fermented beers is to use wood chunks that get transfered from brew to brew, with the Brettanomyces hiding in the wood. It can actually get 4-5mm deep into wood and use cellulose as food source.

If fermenting with Brettanomyces as secondary yeast to Saccharomyces, in my experience pitch rate is largely irrelevant, if anything the less Brettanomyces pitched the greater the effect. Because Brett works so slowly it has plenty of time to grow in numbers. The dregs from a bottle of Bretted beer is enough. There's plenty of scope for experimentation too, in pitching Saccharomyces then Brett, both together at the same time or Brett followed by Saccharomyces a day or two later.


If doing a Brettanomyces only, primary fermentation then growing a starter as you would with Saccharomyces is recommended. Something I need to do, as I've read that doing this with an IPA returns fruity flavours rather than funk. Although, technically not one for a mixed fermentation thread.