The Coronavirus thread.

[Chippy_Tea]

All Royal Lancaster Infirmary children's wards close after staff member tests positive for Covid-19

38 members of staff are now self-isolating at home and all paediatric inpatients at the Royal Lancaster Infirmary will be transferred to Furness General Hospital.

Dr Shahedal Bari, Medical Director, UHMBT, said: "Following a positive test result of staff within the hospital and in line with government guidance, 38 members of staff from the Paediatrics (Children’s) department at the Royal Lancaster Infirmary (RLI) are now self-isolating at home.

"As a result, paediatric inpatients at the Royal Lancaster Infirmary will be transferred to Furness General Hospital.

"Colleagues have continued to go above and beyond to keep the department open this week, and it is in the best interest of patients and colleagues that we put some further temporary measures in place.

"We will continue to work with staff, patients and their families to ensure patients continue to get the best care possible and will keep the situation under review.

"We envisage that this will be a temporary measure till 23 of June when we will review the situation with an intention to reopen.


"I want to reassure everyone that we do not make such decisions lightly and are only doing so to keep people safe and there is no risk to patients and the regional team is aware.

"The safety of patients and staff is our utmost priority and we are following national Public Health England guidance regarding personal protective equipment (PPE), social distancing, and correct hand hygiene.

"We are encouraging all of our staff to be extra vigilant with infection control practices and have produced clear guidance on working safely during COVID-19."


https://www.lancasterguardian.co.uk...-staff-member-tests-positive-covid-19-2888119

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I heard the thing about abattoirs before. Now this outbreak at a chicken processing plant. Wonder if there's some specific link between c-19 and meat, or is it just coincidence? Glad I dont eat the stuff

Abattoirs are always going to be high-risk, just because they have a lot of people indoors, fairly tightly crammed together with loud machinery, where people have to shout to make themselves heard.

However, people are starting to wonder whether there's something about this virus which particularly likes the cold, and/or being out of sunlight, which might explain why it's particularly hard to catch outdoors, and eg why (counterintuitively) it seems to be doing so well in places like Arizona, where June is so hot that people stay indoors where there's aircon. Obviously not good looking ahead to winter...

 

[MyQul]

Abattoirs are always going to be high-risk, just because they have a lot of people indoors, fairly tightly crammed together with loud machinery, where people have to shout to make themselves heard.

However, people are starting to wonder whether there's something about this virus which particularly likes the cold, and/or being out of sunlight, which might explain why it's particularly hard to catch outdoors, and eg why (counterintuitively) it seems to be doing so well in places like Arizona, where June is so hot that people stay indoors where there's aircon. Obviously not good looking ahead to winter...

Thanks for the explanation. Never having been anywhere near an abattoir, I wouldn't have the first clue how they operate and what conditions are like inside one :hat:

 

[trueblue]

Interesting read

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53114251

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[Linalmeemow]

Isn't 128 high for a Saturday by recent standards?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Isn't 128 high for a Saturday by recent standards?

They are Friday's numbers.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

So it looks like the government are going to reduce distancing to 1 meter even though being 1m apart carries up to 10 times the risk of being 2m apart.

The World Health Organisation recommends a distance of at least 1m (just over 3ft), but the UK government's scientific advisers say that being 1m apart carries up to 10 times the risk of being 2m apart.





The government will "bring forward proposals" on how to safely reduce the 2m social distancing rule in England this week, says Matt Hancock.

The health secretary said the distance could be lowered with "mitigations" to cut the risk of transmission.

Labour said it would support a change to 1m "under certain circumstances".

Mr Hancock confirmed new easing of lockdown measures would be announced in the coming days, including whether pubs and restaurants can re-open on 4 July.

Risks and recommendations

The government has faced pressure from leaders of the hospitality sector and its own MPs to lessen the 2m rule, with widespread concerns around the impact it would have on the UK economy.

The World Health Organisation recommends a distance of at least 1m (just over 3ft), but the UK government's scientific advisers say that being 1m apart carries up to 10 times the risk of being 2m apart.

The other nations of the UK are yet to announce any plans to change the 2m distance rule.

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has said she is looking at the evidence, and Northern Ireland's Economy Minister Diane Dodds has said she is open to changing it.

A coronavirus adviser to the Welsh government said the risk in reducing the distance "isn't very big".

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The World Health Organisation recommends a distance of at least 1m (just over 3ft), but the UK government's scientific advisers say that being 1m apart carries up to 10 times the risk of being 2m apart.

Worth noting what the 4 June EMG report actually said was "it is not possible to say with certainty what a safe distance of separation is, but best current evidence suggests that 1m carries between 2 and 10 times the risk of 2m of separation"

They're obviously being cautious, I note that Vallance was saying "The risk at one metre is about 10 to 30 times higher than the risk at two metres" on 5 May, and recent evidence seems to be pushing towards the lower end of the 2-10x range.

 

[Pirate_Pete]

Interesting read

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53114251

I have been wondering about this app.

We've had one for a while now in Australia. I think it was just after Singapore, or around the same time.
I did mention this on a football forum I read and basically wrote this.
Now I'm not a programmer and neither do I know anything about how these things work but. . . . . .
I really have no idea why the British government couldn't have taken the Australian version, and just fiddled with it a bit.
I believe the code is readily available. And anyhow this is a global thing. Boris could have phoned Scotty and asked a favour.
"Give us the code and I'll advertise Tim Tams for you" or some such.
Just mind boggling that your government wasted so much time and money on this.
Yes I know I shouldn't be amazed about a government wasting money, but in this case I am.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Now I'm not a programmer and neither do I know anything about how these things work but. . . . . .
I really have no idea why the British government couldn't have taken the Australian version, and just fiddled with it a bit.

There can be all sorts of reasons why you can't just adapt someone else's app, or at least why doing your own is quicker/cheaper - different privacy laws, different firmware versions etc.

And part of the reason this stuff happens is that people in government aren't programmers and don't know anything about the detail of how these things work, but chuck money around because "how hard can it be?".

Now it's always happened a bit - the procurement of Chinook HC3 for the SAS is one of the more notorious examples, the MoD could have bought off-the-shelf but instead tried to do a homegrown "low-cost" version that ended up costing way more for less capability, in part due to a kitchen-sink approach to requirements. But our current government are particularly bad at handwaving generalities yet dismissing anyone who does know about the detail as Project Fear if they suggest that maybe things are more complicated than just saying "world-class".

Supposedly they're saying they didn't go with the Apple default because it didn't give accurate enough distances, but that sounds like cover.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

The R figure has gone from 1 to 3 in America and the scientists are saying if we move to 1 meter it increases the risk of catching CV19 by 10 times, this is not a good idea.

 

[kelper]

Chippy, can you give a link? Many countries use 1m. WHO recommends 1m.......

The Lancet published a study saying the risk is 3% at 1m and half of that at 2m ie 1.5% not a ten-fold improvement.


The situation in Germany is worrying but US is a bigger surge. Coronavirus Pandemic Data Explorer

 

[Chippy_Tea]

So its 1 meter apart when not possible to be 2 meters apart, bosses aint going to take advantage of that are they.


The prime minister has announced a series of measures easing the lockdown in England.

• From 4 July the 2m distancing rule will be changed, and people should stay "one-metre plus" where a distance of 2m is not possible
• Two households of any size will be able to meet in any setting inside or out. This does not have to be the same set of households - but the government does not not recommend meetings of multiple households indoors because of the risk of infection
• Outdoors, people can meet in groups of up to six - but two households can meet regardless of size
• Restaurants and pubs can reopen. All hospitality indoors will be limited to table service and with minimal staff and customer contact. Customers will also have to give contact details when they enter
• Holiday accommodation - including hotels, B&Bs, cottages, campsites and caravan parks can reopen
• Indoor venues allowed to reopen include libraries, community centres, museums and galleries, amusement arcades and cinemas
• More outdoor spaces will open if they can do so safely, including outdoor gyms and children's playgrounds
• Hairdressers will be able to reopen, as long as they take precautions. Other close-contact services such as nail bars will not yet open, but the prime minister said they would be able to open "as soon as we're confident they can operate safely"
• Nightclubs and casinos remain closed, along with bowling alleys, spas, swimming pools and indoor soft play centres

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Chippy, can you give a link? Many countries use 1m. WHO recommends 1m.......
The Lancet published a study saying the risk is 3% at 1m and half of that at 2m ie 1.5% not a ten-fold improvement.

I cannot find the original (probably heard it on 5 live) a quick search brought this up -

"In a paper to the Government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) on June 4, the EMG said that a one-metre distance could carry up to 10 times the risk of two metres"

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/cutting-2m-rule-1m-would-18414218

 

[dad_of_jon]

I'm still hoping WFH is the default option where possible because I could spend 12 hours being 1-2 meters away from a few peoplein work where as in a pub this would be for a few hours tops. However you need to consider the staff who work in these establishments as well. If office workers go back en masse we will have a big issue down the line - we need to unsquash the amount of people who have to be in close proximity to each other over time as a good health policy rather than pile em high and pack 'em in.... who ever thought the tube commute crush is healthy... only now the chickens have come home to roost.

 

[kelper]

I wish they would talk in terms of absolute risk - one in a million or one in a hundred-thousand. I read that Lancer article andit said the risk at 1m was 3% of the risk without social distancing. And, at 2m that risk was halved to 1.5%. I don't think the 2m distance is worth such a small change.

 

[Covrich]

Speaking to my Ex about this and my mother both Band 7 Sisters

Ex whose had to deal with it thinks it will peter out but will always exist and like the flu and colds and other coronoa virii.

Ultimatley she bleieves there will be a jab but it may be a more yearly thing which vulnerable people will have . She also believes that whilst longer term antibodies are still up in the air humans will build up over tiem resistance to it. Yes she said there are a few freak deaths which cannot be explained but the people dying in the hospitals are weaker people and these need to be protected and get the jabs ect.. The same could be saif for other illnesses she said flus and all sorts kill people or freak deaths but they are not hammering the front page of the news.

She is a strongly beliveing controversally that kids should be back in schools and they are the ones who actually need to build up that immunity throughout the community as they are the future and that school should be as normal as possibly and not stand here avoid going past the black and yellow tape ect it does them no good..

SHe was very on edge at the start of this working with covid and moving their corpses and wrapping them in shrouds and stuff but shes actually come around to the fact that we need to look at a way to senisbly not be in lockdown and live a normal live and not have to walk around in the middle of the road because someone is walking a dog or not see your mates ever again because it will be a part of everyday life having another coronavirus but one which despite flare ups will be relatively just something seasonal and over time we will build up against.

From living with my wife and my mother Nurses can be very abrupt and clinical about these kind of things but they look at it almost non emotional and they do not subscribe to teh hyperbole the likes of daily mail and guardian and BBC give you as they just look at it from a clinical pov

 

[Covrich]

I'm still hoping WFH is the default option where possible because I could spend 12 hours being 1-2 meters away from a few peoplein work where as in a pub this would be for a few hours tops. However you need to consider the staff who work in these establishments as well. If office workers go back en masse we will have a big issue down the line - we need to unsquash the amount of people who have to be in close proximity to each other over time as a good health policy rather than pile em high and pack 'em in.... who ever thought the tube commute crush is healthy... only now the chickens have come home to roost.

That is true I think and hope that this will bring out positive change from businesses to allowthe flexibility to WFH where possible you work in IT too right? I find I am able to facilite a lot of work from home hpwever being on site is needed to rota system works for us right now

I am currently rolling out Meraki Switches across teh estate and programming the setup of tehse switches I can do from the cloud, however still need to be on site to physically install them test they are working and the fiber links are working ect and that teh correct vlans are working ect