Stout hasn't reached final gravity

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Tap water and well water are one and the same. There is no alternative.

OK that’s not an option then - unless you have a neighbour with high alkalinity tap water who doesn’t mind you popping round every so often with a Jerry can!

Other options:
Mash using base malt and light coloured grains, add your dark grains at the end of the mash. Dark grains add acidity but if you add them at the end of the mash pretty much all the conversion is already done.

Use bicarbonate of soda to add alkalinity, though add a lot and your beer will taste flinty or minerally.

Buy some bottled water that has high alkalinity, this might be relatively expensive.

A novel approach I’ve seen on-line, and is supported in a book I have that’s all about water (really!), is this one….

Take a corny keg and half fill it with your water (you could alternatively use a plastic fizzy drink bottle and carbonation cap). Add precipitate of chalk at maybe 10g/l. Pressurise the keg/bottle with CO2 to about 20-30psi. Every time you walk past it give it a shake. Carbonate will try to maintain equilibrium with dissolved CO2 which means it will dissolve more quickly when under pressure with CO2. When you want some high alkalinity water take some from your keg and shake the CO2 out to give you a saturated carbonate solution. This process mimics what happens in nature but is far quicker. You might want to buy a Salifert Alkalinity test kit so you know what the alkalinity is so you can add the right amount.

 

[peebee]

Sorry, I mixed up my notes on this one. I added precipitate of chalk, not gypsum.

"Precipitate of chalk". The clue is in the name! "Precipitate", its done it once, it'll just do it again. Though if you add the chalk with the grains, Kai Troaster (Braukaiser.com) reckons 50% will react with malt acids.

I have less extreme water at 7-8ppm (as CaCO3) in alkalinity by titration (two professional tests, once by me … x1.22 for "as bicarbonate"). That's at the tap. The water company test higher at the reservoir (21ppm as CaCO3). Those with high alkalinity water have no idea of the trouble it causes! Those using "RO Water" would have the same problem, but the RO Water gets passed through a "remineralisation filter".

What I've decided (haven't tried it yet) is to move the Alkalinity up by a known amount with sodium bicarbonate (the water companies use calcium hydroxide … "Lime") and take it from there. Low alkalinity water is very difficult to titrate a reliable result from … ignore anyone suggesting an aquarium tester. A quick and dirty: About 1 gram sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) in 25L will provide 29ppm alkalinity (as bicarbonate) or "24ppm as CaCO3". And take it from there. (Someone glance at those numbers to check they are okay … I'm not out me dressing gown yet). The Sodium it adds is negligible. Chuck the "precipitate of chalk" in the bin. Use Calcium Chloride, not potassium chloride, you are most likely very low on Calcium in the water. And … well you'll be in a better starting position.

You may look at that "as CaCO3" and think "I'm not adding any CaCO3" (chalk)? That's right, a great example of how daft that "as CaCO3" babble is.


Later, I'll go through these numbers for my benefit! I'm tied of pH4.9 mashes (and yours, @Larse, will be no better - quite unsuitable for "stout").

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

OK that’s not an option then - unless you have a neighbour with high alkalinity tap water who doesn’t mind you popping round every so often with a Jerry can!

Other options:
Mash using base malt and light coloured grains, add your dark grains at the end of the mash. Dark grains add acidity but if you add them at the end of the mash pretty much all the conversion is already done.

Use bicarbonate of soda to add alkalinity, though add a lot and your beer will taste flinty or minerally.

Buy some bottled water that has high alkalinity, this might be relatively expensive.

A novel approach I’ve seen on-line, and is supported in a book I have that’s all about water (really!), is this one….

Take a corny keg and half fill it with your water (you could alternatively use a plastic fizzy drink bottle and carbonation cap). Add precipitate of chalk at maybe 10g/l. Pressurise the keg/bottle with CO2 to about 20-30psi. Every time you walk past it give it a shake. Carbonate will try to maintain equilibrium with dissolved CO2 which means it will dissolve more quickly when under pressure with CO2. When you want some high alkalinity water take some from your keg and shake the CO2 out to give you a saturated carbonate solution. This process mimics what happens in nature but is far quicker. You might want to buy a Salifert Alkalinity test kit so you know what the alkalinity is so you can add the right amount.

I have high alkalinity water so I use a RO machine to bring my alkalinity down but I’m a curious person so I’ve just bought some precipitate of chalk to do some experiments.

I’ll run some tests, take some measurements, and report back.

 

[peebee]

… Take a corny keg and half fill it with your water (you could alternatively use a plastic fizzy drink bottle and carbonation cap). Add precipitate of chalk at maybe 10g/l. Pressurise the keg/bottle with CO2 to about 20-30psi. Every time you walk past it give it a shake. Carbonate will try to maintain equilibrium with dissolved CO2 which means it will dissolve more quickly when under pressure with CO2. When you want some high alkalinity water take some from your keg and shake the CO2 out to give you a saturated carbonate solution. This process mimics what happens in nature but is far quicker. You might want to buy a Salifert Alkalinity test kit so you know what the alkalinity is so you can add the right amount.

I've often contemplated doing this myself. It's making a solution of Calcium Bicarbonate which doesn't exist as a solid. But it's a lot of phaffing about. Might be worth it if using baking soda results in dangerously high levels of sodium, when building water suitable for stout for example, but I'd have to be convinced to think it could be "dangerous".

There's also the assumption that lots of "roast malt" is very acid. It's not! Lot's of dark crystal is (darker crystal malts sail past "roast malt" in the acidity stakes). I've got to get me head round that a bit more!

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

I've often contemplated doing this myself. It's making a solution of Calcium Bicarbonate which doesn't exist as a solid. But it's a lot of phaffing about. Might be worth it if using baking soda results in dangerously high levels of sodium, when building water suitable for stout for example, but I'd have to be convinced to think it could be "dangerous".

There's also the assumption that lots of "roast malt" is very acid. It's not! Lot's of dark crystal is (darker crystal malts sail past "roast malt" in the acidity stakes). I've got to get me head round that a bit more!

It shouldn’t be much faffing about, put some water in a bottle, pressurise it with CO2, add a bit of calcium carbonate, give it a shake and walk away until you need it.

I doubt the sodium would be dangerous unless perhaps you’re on a low sodium diet. Large additions though might start to affect taste negatively.

Yeah, acidity of grain is not black and white (no pun intended) but leaving dark malt to the end of the mash covers it*. What this doesn’t address though is the mineral contribution to the perception of taste and mouthfeel.

*I’m of course ignoring the obvious such as acidulated malt!

Edit: You might want to add the calcium carbonate before you pressurise it!

 

[peebee]

… add a bit of calcium carbonate, give it a shake and walk away until you need it.

That's the phaffing bit. Deciding how much of this solution will add "what?" to the water being prepared. And you have to know when its "done" (can it be in a state of "half done"?).

None of the calculators offer "calcium bicarbonate" as an option. It will need "phaffing" to add it directly to the source water analysis (if that's the best way of doing it?).


Conclusion: It "shouldn’t be much faffing about" … but it will be!

[EDIT: You might be able to add it in a calculator as "CaCO3". 1 x "CaCO3" = 1 x "Ca(HCO3)2. But can you do that? ... Phaff, phaff, phaff!]

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

That's the phaffing bit. Deciding how much of this solution will add "what?" to the water being prepared. And you have to know when its "done" (can it be in a state of "half done"?).

None of the calculators offer "calcium bicarbonate" as an option. It will need "phaffing" to add it directly to the source water analysis (if that's the best way of doing it?).


Conclusion: It "shouldn’t be much faffing about" … but it will be!

I’m hoping a few trials will inform some of this and reduce the faffing for others.

I’ll start with three blends of water; zero alkalinity, a low alkalinity and a moderate level of alkalinity. To each I’ll add a measured amount of calcium carbonate and use a consistent CO2 pressure (in the same volume), and the same temperature. I’ll then take readings each day for a few days and depending on those results continue daily or switch to weekly.

Using learning from the first set of trials I might then repeat the trials , and again with different additions of calcium carbonate and different CO2 pressures. I’m not sure I’ll bother with temperature because cellar temperature or room temperature is where people will keep it…alright I might do a test at cellar temperature and room temperature!

 

[peebee]

*I’m of course ignoring the obvious such as acidulated malt!

Not so obvious! You are not adding acidity, you're adding alkalinity! More phaffing?

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Not so obvious! You are not adding acidity, you're adding alkalinity! More phaffing?

My mind *might* be focussed on the pain au chocolate I’ve got in the oven.

 

[peebee]

I’m hoping a few trials will inform some of this and reduce the faffing for others.

Should save me from the phaffing about (one down … ).

 

[Sadfield]

Chalk does dissolve in water, it just takes more time than a typical 60 minute mash. Prepare your water in advance.

 

[Larse]

I'm really enjoying this discussion, very informative. Who knew alkalinity was so hard to add (pun intended). What I'd like to know is how much? What's the target pH and how many points does it need from say as @peebee mentioned; 4.9?

Chalk does dissolve in water, it just takes more time than a typical 60 minute mash. Prepare your water in advance.

I always prepare in advance. I have a Burco boiler which I fill the night before brew day and add whatever needs adding and have a timer set to turn it on for a particular length of time (1 hour if boiling, 45 minutes if just heating for strike temp). So if I'm adding chalk, it's in for at least 8 hours.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Chalk does dissolve in water, it just takes more time than a typical 60 minute mash. Prepare your water in advance.

The challenge though is how much is dissolved over what time and are any other variable like temperature highly relevant. As peebee said, how do you know when it’s done and what you’ve got.

 

[peebee]

Using learning from the first set of trials I might then repeat the trials with different additions of calcium carbonate and different CO2 pressures. I’m not sure I’ll bother with temperature because cellar temperature or room temperature is where people will keep it…alright I might do a test at cellar temperature and room temperature!

It shouldn't be too critical? The CaCO3 will be happy to take on extra CO2 wherever it can find it (and then dissolve!).

Great stuff this chemistry lark … at school I was only interested with how big a bang I could make. Worryingly, I then went on to be an explosives technician! Still, I've made it to old age, and with no deaths attributed to my activities … or at least I don't think that work I was doing for Saddam Hussain's navy was put to use

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

It shouldn't be too critical? The CaCO3 will be happy to take on extra CO2 wherever it can find it (and then dissolve!).

Great stuff this chemistry lark … at school I was only interested with how big a bang I could make. Worryingly, I then went on to be an explosives technician! Still, I've made it to old age, and with no deaths attributed to my activities … or at least I don't think that work I was doing for Saddam Hussain's navy was put to use

Yeah we’re dealing with chemistry so the outcomes should be predictable - until some bright spark tells me why it isn’t so at this point I’m making no assumptions.

 

[peebee]

What's the target pH and how many points does it need from say as @peebee mentioned; 4.9?

Phew, you pick out the hard ones! Changing all this "buffering" caper into "pH" is a step to far for me. It's mind numbingly complicated. That's why all this "RA" nonsense became so popular … except that is all it turned out to be … nonsense!

There's been some pharting about with this "DIpH" stuff (or is it "pHDI"?), but I'm trying to refrain from going there (me 'ead is screwed up enough).

 

[Larse]

I found an article on it here. It actually quantifies how much to add and for how long.

Northern Brewer’s calcium carbonate recommends using 5/8 teaspoon per gallon of beer to lower acidity by 15%.

1. Add the chalk to the empty bottle with the funnel (if using).
2. Fill the bottle with carbonated water, leaving a bit of space at the top to allow room for shaking.
3. Put the cap tightly on the bottle and shake hard for a few minutes.
4. Leave the bottle to sit for 12-24 hours to allow the chalk to dissolve. The water should be clear when it’s ready to use.
5. Mix with your regular strike water on brew day!

Not sure how to apply the 15% but say you had 4.9 pH, 15% addition would end up with 5.6 pH?

 

[peebee]

I always prepare in advance. I have a Burco boiler which I fill the night before brew day and add whatever needs adding and have a timer set to turn it on for a particular length of time (1 hour if boiling, 45 minutes if just heating for strike temp). So if I'm adding chalk, it's in for at least 8 hours.

I think what's being suggested there is just allow the 380-400ppm CO2 in the air to naturally dissolve in the water and go on to create the Calcium Bicarbonate with the chalk that's been added (and is sitting on the bottom). I've no idea how long that would take, many times slower than applying pure CO2 (1milliom ppm) at some pressure.

 

[Larse]

I think what's being suggested there is just allow the 380-400ppm CO2 in the air to naturally dissolve in the water and go on to create the Calcium Bicarbonate with the chalk that's been added (and is sitting on the bottom). I've no idea how long that would take, many times slower than applying pure CO2 (1milliom ppm) at some pressure.

I don't think it did. I recall the remnants being cloudy and my shiny new Burco element was pretty chalked up. CO2 seems to be the only likely method.

 

[peebee]

I found an article on it here. It actually quantifies how much to add and for how long.



Not sure how to apply the 15% but say you had 4.9 pH, 15% addition would end up with 5.6 pH?

Coo ... if it was so easy!

But the creating Calcium Bicarbonate solution method should be sound. Don't exceed the maximum solubility of Calcium Bicarbonate though … whatever that is.