Storing yeast

[hamster]

So I'm going to an experiment soon that involves using 4 different types of yeast. Splitting an initial brew means I only need a 1/4 of the yeast within my packets so...

I can create yeast starters for the remaining yeast so I can use them at a different time but my question is how best to store them once I've created the starter ?

Once they have duplicated is is best to:

- Store them in the fridge around 4c and just allow them to sleep
- Potentially freeze them
- Let them ferment out the starter completely before above
- Leave some sugar in the solution before storage
- All or none of the above ?

I read your meant to use them within a month ideally but these could be around a while and it seems most can be reused even after 6 months with another starter to remove the dead yeastie beasts...

 

[Spapro]

So I'm going to an experiment soon that involves using 4 different types of yeast. Splitting an initial brew means I only need a 1/4 of the yeast within my packets so...

I can create yeast starters for the remaining yeast so I can use them at a different time but my question is how best to store them once I've created the starter ?

Once they have duplicated is is best to:

- Store them in the fridge around 4c and just allow them to sleep
- Potentially freeze them
- Let them ferment out the starter completely before above
- Leave some sugar in the solution before storage
- All or none of the above ?

I read your meant to use them within a month ideally but these could be around a while and it seems most can be reused even after 6 months with another starter to remove the dead yeastie beasts...

You using dry yeast or liquid ?

 

[hamster]

You using dry yeast or liquid ?

Both ! My list of yeast to try is

Safale-04 - dry
Mangrove Jacks West Coast M44 - dry
Nottingham ale yeast - dry
Californian Ale Yeast WLP001 - liquid

Essentially I don't want to waste them and also save myself some money when the next brew comes around...

My usual go to is Safale-05 but I want to try different ones

 

[henteaser]

I've re-used WLP001 Cali yeast after about 3 months in the fridge no problem, you'll just need to make a fresh starter when you come to reuse.

My typical process looks like this;

Let's say I need 200 billion cells for a batch, I'll make a starter big enough for this plus a further 100 billion to store for next time.

For example, a 2L starter might give me 300 billion cells from a fresh pack. I'll let it ferment out, swirl like a mad man, and pour ~600ml off in to a sanitized mason jar. This goes in the fridge. no washing, just leave it to crash and compact under the beer.

The other ~1400ml gets crashed, then pitched.

When I'm ready to re-use, I take the ~600ml out of the fridge, decant, and start all over.

I've never frozen yeast, would be interested to hear if anyone does this?

'Er indoors says she really appreciates the fridge being taken up with these things :lol:

 

[DoctorMick]

Isn't the advice with dried yeast not to make a starter?

Just read up and it's more that it's often cheaper to buy more dried yeast than make a starter.

 

[hamster]

I've re-used WLP001 Cali yeast after about 3 months in the fridge no problem, you'll just need to make a fresh starter when you come to reuse.

My typical process looks like this;

Let's say I need 200 billion cells for a batch, I'll make a starter big enough for this plus a further 100 billion to store for next time.

For example, a 2L starter might give me 300 billion cells from a fresh pack. I'll let it ferment out, swirl like a mad man, and pour ~600ml off in to a sanitized mason jar. This goes in the fridge. no washing, just leave it to crash and compact under the beer.

The other ~1400ml gets crashed, then pitched.

When I'm ready to re-use, I take the ~600ml out of the fridge, decant, and start all over.

I've never frozen yeast, would be interested to hear if anyone does this?

'Er indoors says she really appreciates the fridge being taken up with these things :lol:

Thanks henteaser, that's pretty much what my thinking was...

Iv'e just realized something as well... When you pitch your starter do you create a wort that will give you a certain total number of cells ? Or is the total number of cells dependent on the number of cells you start with ?

 

[henteaser]

When you pitch your starter do you create a wort that will give you a certain total number of cells ? Or is the total number of cells dependent on the number of cells you start with ?

It's both, the growth rate is a function of the initial cell count, yeast viabilty and the volume of of wort you pitch in to.

Have a play with the figures in this calculator you'll notice you can increase the final yeast amount by simply increasing either the wort amount or the initial cell count.

 

[chub1]

For my small batches i only use 1/2 packs of dried.I re seal and stick em in the fridge for a few weeks, been fine so far:thumb:

 

[hamster]

It's both, the growth rate is a function of the initial cell count, yeast viabilty and the volume of of wort you pitch in to.

Have a play with the figures in this calculator you'll notice you can increase the final yeast amount by simply increasing either the wort amount or the initial cell count.

I see exactly what you mean... Seems if I'm going to do this another thing I'll need is a stir plate !

Any idea how you give an estimate of how many billion cells I have in any given start ?

The tips on the calculator say a typical white labs vial is 100 billion so even by that you would need a starter to double the yeast count before pitching. If harvesting you'd need to triple that... For a batch that has been in the fridge for any given time is anyone's guess...

For my small batches i only use 1/2 packs of dried.I re seal and stick em in the fridge for a few weeks, been fine so far:thumb:

Yeah problem is I probably only brew once a month and always a bigger batch...

 

[Spapro]

Yeah problem is I probably only brew once a month and always a bigger batch...

You can store/re-use dry yeast in wet form (from top cropping during fermentation or harvesting some trub) but to be honest if you are always doing larger batches for the price of a new sachet each time personally I think harvesting/re-using dry yeast is more bother than its worth - just use a new sachet for each brew.

I've found for regular strength brews a 1.2 - 1.3l starter made up on stir plate of liquid yeast works really well (giving more than enough cells for a healthy ferment for a 23l batch).

This is what I do for re-using liquid yeasts, after pitching into a brew:

• Top crop 300ml of froth and wort using a stainless soup ladle 2-3 days into fermentation when you have a decent krausen.

• Let that 300ml sample ferment out fully (I use a small conical flask for this bit) - stood next to your main fermenting bucket.
• Transfer that 300ml to a jar in the fridge for storage (for 3-6 months easy, sure longer wouldn't be an issue).
• 2-3 days before brewing again make a 1.3l starter with 130gms light dry malt extract, pour most of the clear wort off the stored yeast and dump the yeast ionto the starter, on the stir plate for 2 days and then use in your brew.
• Everything you use, jar and lid, soup ladle etc. for top cropping and storing must be cleaned and sterilised to avoid infection.
• The yeast will replicate to fill the 1.3l volume of the starter (on the stir plate).

I have found yeast to be pretty indestructable in practice.

Hope this helps.

 

[Zephyr259]

I do the same as Henteaser. The yeast calculator he linked has a box which estimates the remaining cells in the packaging based on date from manufacture. I do the same calculation with my stored yeast. After 6 months 100 B cells has reduced to 25%, this works out nicely that 500 ml of 1.040 starter boosts it back to 100B.

I'm going to be experimenting with freezing yeast soon. I want to play with several strains and I've pretty much maxed out my good will with 3 jars in the fridge already. A 1 L starter made from 100B cells should produce ~250 B cells, split this between 10 storage tube with a glycerine solution and freeze. Each tube has enough yeast to be pitched into a fresh 1L starter which will grow enough cells for an average strength beer - 23L at 1.042 but as I tend to do more like 15L I'll be able to go up to 1.064. I may increase the figures to allow for 1.5L starters which will then let me ferment way up into the 1.090 range.