Stabbing deaths among young people hit eight-year high

[Thumper]

I believe there's a link the line I quoted. But the burden of proof is rather backwards here: if you're claiming it is primarily black people, then you ought to be providing evidence to prove that.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

if you're claiming it is primarily black people, then you ought to be providing evidence to prove that.

Knife crime tends to be more prevalent in large cities, particularly in London.

For every 100,000 people in the capital, there were 114 knife offences in 2016, with separate figures, from the mayor's office, showing that young black and minority ethnic teenage boys and men were disproportionately affected, as both victims and perpetrators.

Next highest were the West Midlands, with 56 knife offences per 100,000 population, and Yorkshire and the Humber, 52.

Among possible explanations for the recent increase in knife crime is a steep decline in the use by police of stop and search.

The powers enable officers to search people on the street if they have reasonable grounds to suspect they may be carrying weapons, illegal drugs, stolen property or items to be used to commit a crime. People can also be searched without reasonable grounds if a senior officer believes there's a risk of serious violence in a particular area.

From 2009 the number of stops has been falling across England and Wales, especially in London, primarily due to concerns that the measures unfairly targeted young black men, wasted police resources and were ineffective at catching criminals.

Theresa May, as Home Secretary, led efforts to drive down the number of stops, but there's anecdotal evidence from police that young people are now more inclined to carry knives because of growing confidence they won't be stopped.

The statistical basis for that is far from clear - but Scotland Yard and the mayor of London are now preparing to increase the use of stop and search again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42749089

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[Thumper]

I've read that story, chippy. And as I said, in London it is disproportionately black male youths. Elsewhere in the country, it isnt.

What's interesting about the figures is that it suggests stop and search does work, which we were discussing earlier.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

What's interesting about the figures is that it suggests stop and search does work, which we were discussing earlier.

Random stop and search has to be increased especially in areas known for knife crime, if you have nothing to hide why would you object to turning your pockets out.

 

[Thumper]

Random stop and search has to be increased especially in areas known for knife crime, if you have nothing to hide why would you object to turning your pockets out.

Personally I would object, but if it has been proven to work then I would say we need to seriously consider bringing it back.

 

[Ken L]

Stop and search can (as I've already said) work but you really need to look upstream for a solution.
Where to start?
Lack of fathers and appropriate male role models?
Lack of consequences to violence throughout the education system as a result of the banning of corporal punishment?
The medicalization of social problems and a benefits system that rewards poor behaviour if parents can convince a quack that their child's poor behaviour is due to ADHD or somesuch?

 

[Chippy_Tea]

What is the solution to a lack of father's?

 

[Saisonator]

Stop and search can (as I've already said) work but you really need to look upstream for a solution.
Where to start?
Lack of fathers and appropriate male role models?
Lack of consequences to violence throughout the education system as a result of the banning of corporal punishment?
The medicalization of social problems and a benefits system that rewards poor behaviour if parents can convince a quack that their child's poor behaviour is due to ADHD or somesuch?

I was listening to LBC the other day and a London university lecturer called in, apparently the poor behaviour and lack of respect pupils show at school is actually carrying on at universities.
He told how students just filter in as they please, use their phones, talk through lectures and even follow and intimidate lecturers outside classes if they feel in any way aggrieved.

 

[Saisonator]

What is the solution to a lack of father's?

I guess two things have kept people in line during human history, religion and social stigma.
There are some that also believe that the welfare system makes the problem worse, whereby the state takes the financial role of the absent father, so some women behave less responsibly with who they let impregnate them.

 

[Ken L]

What is the solution to a lack of father's?

Still swimming further upstream....
Take your pick, but there are indications from the US that Welfare provision might be one aggravating factor among many. Afterall, when you incentivise single mothers by providing money and housing without the need to work, you are on the fast train to social breakdown.
Prior to the implementation of welfare provision that incentivises single mother families, crime figures for black and white citizens were in the same ballpark - now there is no comparison.
Of course, in the US, things are exacerbated by the mass incarceration of black males for trivial "crimes".

 

[GerritT]

Comparing domestic situations with the US is imho quite useless. They're a typical bunch, with a typical mindset.
(yes I'm generalising but aren't we all here)

 

[Ken L]

If we can't learn from others, we are doomed to repeat their mistakes.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I think this has run its course.

 

[Ken L]

It seems that this isn't just a London or a UK problem.
The number of knife-related crimes in Germany has increased by more than 1,200%. Around 4,000 such crimes were reported to police in 2016, up from just 300 in 2007.

 

[Chippy_Tea]

I wonder how our punishments for knife crime compare to theirs.

 

[Cwrw666]

Random stop and search has to be increased especially in areas known for knife crime, if you have nothing to hide why would you object to turning your pockets out.

I would. But only because I routinely carry a knife.

 

[MyQul]

I would. But only because I routinely carry a knife.

Me too. As part of my cycling tool kit.

For those who dont know, it's perfectly legal to carry a non locking folding knife with a blade of less than thee inches. I carry one of these on my keys as it doesent even look like a knife when closed.

https://www.heinnie.com/kershaw-pub-31449

 

[Chippy_Tea]

London murder rate overtakes New York's

A spike in violent crime in London saw more murders committed in the city in February and March than there were in New York, figures show.

So far in 2018, 46 people have been fatally stabbed, shot or injured in London compared with 50 in the US city.

But, while New York's rate month-on-month has decreased since January, London's is on the rise.

Ex-Met Police Ch Supt Leroy Logan says it is proof that "London's violent traits have become a virus".

Statistics from the New York Police Department (NYPD) and the Metropolitan Police, reported in the Sunday Times and obtained by the BBC, highlight narrowing murder rates between the two cities which have similar population sizes.

City Hall says it is "deeply concerned" by knife crime in the capital, but, along with the Met Police, insists London "remains one of the safest in the world".

Read more - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43610936

 

[Ken L]

I wonder how our punishments for knife crime compare to theirs.

Well, according to one source:
"Germany's knife-crime problem is being exacerbated by its lenient judicial system, in which offenders receive relatively light sentences, even for serious crimes. In many instances, individuals who are arrested for knife-related crimes are released after questioning from police. This practice allows criminal suspects to continue committing crimes with virtual impunity".

 

[Chippy_Tea]

Until they make the fines much higher for carrying a knife and sentences for using one much longer they are not going to stop the increase in people carrying them, stop and search has to be used much more and if the human rights lot complain they should be asked which they prefer more stop and search or more dead kids.

As i am typing this the news reader has just reported a 33 year old was stabbed on Friday by a 22 year old and has died.