Split between bottles and keg

[Fritzpoll85]

I'm about to package my dunkles weissbier. I have a keg which is where the bulk of it will go, but some friends and family want to have a try so I also need to bottle some.

I don't want to bulk prime since I'm kegging the beer. Do I just work out the bulk prime amount and then divide it down to the number of bottles and add that amount of sugar? Do I need to take account of the existing carbonation ?

 

[Keruso]

Not sure what you mean by "existing carbonation" if its finished fermenting and you're ready to keg then there shouldn't be any existing carbonation. Personally I would just add 1/2 teaspoon of dextrose, or table sugar or 1 carbonation drop to each 330ml bottle.

 

[Banbeer]

Never done a Weissbier, my bad, is it a fizzy beer? I guess not. If it's a fizzy beer I'd go with 1/2 to 1 tsp of sugar per 500ml bottle, if it requires less fizz then 1/4 to 1/2 tsp

 

[Fritzpoll85]

Not sure what you mean by "existing carbonation" if its finished fermenting and you're ready to keg then there shouldn't be any existing carbonation. Personally I would just add 1/2 teaspoon of dextrose, or table sugar or 1 carbonation drop to each 330ml bottle.

Ah, I thought there would be some CO2 dissolved in it from the fermenter?

 

[Fritzpoll85]

Never done a Weissbier, my bad, is it a fizzy beer? I guess not. If it's a fizzy beer I'd go with 1/2 to 1 tsp of sugar per 500ml bottle, if it requires less fizz then 1/4 to 1/2 tsp

I think it's quite fizzy - something like 3 volumes CO2?

 

[Banbeer]

Ah, I thought there would be some CO2 dissolved in it from the fermenter?

C02 doesn't dissolve in a fermenter because it has an escape route i.e. the airlock, it's only when you bottle/kegg it has nowhere to go so is dissolved in the beer if it's 3 volumes go for 1tsp per 500ml and leave for 2 weeks in the warm before putting it in the cold.

 

[Keruso]

C02 doesn't dissolve in a fermenter because it has an escape route i.e. the airlock, it's only when you bottle/kegg it has nowhere to go so is dissolved in the beer if it's 3 volumes go for 1tsp per 500ml and leave for 2 weeks in the warm before putting it in the cold.

Yep

 

[obscure]

I prime individual bottles,on a regular basis, it’s worth getting a funnel but I just add sugar direct to the bottle and then add the beer.

 

[Fritzpoll85]

C02 doesn't dissolve in a fermenter because it has an escape route i.e. the airlock, it's only when you bottle/kegg it has nowhere to go so is dissolved in the beer if it's 3 volumes go for 1tsp per 500ml and leave for 2 weeks in the warm before putting it in the cold.

Ah, ok. I think I'd read that some CO2 does dissolve, hence why if you increase the fermenter temperature the airlock can suddenly start bubbling again (since it comes out if solution at the higher temperature)

 

[Banbeer]

I prime individual bottles,on a regular basis, it’s worth getting a funnel but I just add sugar direct to the bottle and then add the beer.

I now use cornies but bottle the remainder but even when I bottled all my brew I used sugar cubes 1 per 500ml bottle, always works for me

 

[terrym]

C02 doesn't dissolve in a fermenter because it has an escape route i.e. the airlock, it's only when you bottle/kegg it has nowhere to go so is dissolved in the beer if it's 3 volumes go for 1tsp per 500ml and leave for 2 weeks in the warm before putting it in the cold.

CO2 does dissolve in a fermenter. CO2 dissolves in most things aqueous. Its a reversible chemical reaction. So at the end of fermentation there will be some dissolved CO2 (as carbonic acid) in equilibrium with the gas phase (or head space). If you raise the temperature you change the equilibrium and CO2 will come out of solution, and perhaps bubble through the airlock. Cool it down and some will be drawn back into solution, and if your FV is tightly sealed you will draw a slight vacuum. And if you are using pressure to carbonate a beer you are merely using another change in the equilibrium state to force CO2 into solution, but this equilibrium changes as the beer is dispensed and CO2 bubbles out of solution to achieve the new equilibrium point at ambient pressure.

 

[Banbeer]

So how come we have to carbonate then

 

[Fritzpoll85]

CO2 does dissolve in a fermenter. CO2 dissolves in most things aqueous. Its a reversible chemical reaction. So at the end of fermentation there will be some dissolved CO2 (as carbonic acid) in equilibrium with the gas phase (or head space). If you raise the temperature you change the equilibrium and CO2 will come out of solution, and perhaps bubble through the airlock. Cool it down and some will be drawn back into solution, and if your FV is tightly sealed you will draw a slight vacuum. And if you are using pressure to carbonate a beer you are merely using another change in the equilibrium state to force CO2 into solution, but this equilibrium changes as the beer is dispensed and CO2 bubbles out of solution to achieve the new equilibrium point at ambient pressure.

That's what I'd thought, but couldn't work out how to modify the amount of priming sugar to compensate.

 

[Fritzpoll85]

So how come we have to carbonate then

Probably because it isn't enough CO2 to get it to bubble. The bubbling is it coming out of solution so you need some extra.

 

[terrym]

That's what I'd thought, but couldn't work out how to modify the amount of priming sugar to compensate.

If you use this priming calculator it compensates for the dissolved CO2 in solution and also allows for the temperature of the beer
https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

 

[Fritzpoll85]

That's brilliant. Looks like 4.8g of sugar per half litre bottle. Calculator thinks I've got 0.86 volumes of CO2 in the brew

 

[Banbeer]

Probably because it isn't enough CO2 to get it to bubble. The bubbling is it coming out of solution so you need some extra.

I was being sarcastic, forgive me.

 

[Dutto]

After numerous years on bottles (650ml flip-top were favourite) I moved over to PB's and Growlers.

I fractured my left femur 8 weeks ago and asked SWMBO to disconnect the CO2 from two Growlers in case there was a leak. I knew it would be many weeks before I returned and gave her very detailed instructions over the phone.

"I disconnected it and there was a hissing noise; but it's stopped now!" was the report I got back. I checked only yesterday and instead of using the QC/DC on each Growler SWMBO had removed the main CO2 line; so goodbye 10 litres of Lager, 10 litres of Bitter and £15 worth of CO2 "Just like that!" as Tommy Cooper used to say!

Kegs are less of a hassle than bottles but they did me fine for many years.

 

[Fritzpoll85]

I was being sarcastic, forgive me.

D'oh - sorry. It was a long day yesterday of marshaling a three year old around the garden in the heat and completely missed the tone