So I bought some kegs...

[calumscott]

I don't understand why you need C02 AND a beer engine?

Are you planning on hooking up a type of aspirator/breather to keep the beer fresh for longer than a few days?

Also don't see any shives/spiles/etc?? Essential if you're going for a "cask" beer.

K

Well, with just me drinking it, it really is going to have to last more than a few days!! Even I would struggle (or rather my liver would) to get through a 30 litre kegful in a week!

So instead of letting air into the thing wouldn't it be better to let CO2 in instead?

EDIT: Oh, and I want to be able to serve all different styles, "cask" style and keg style beers and maybe even ciders.

 

[Rhys]

Calum, if you don't already know CTC in Corn Street, Witney,do CO2.
Given that they are a camping shop took me ages to find them!
Would never have thought of trying them.

 

[Rhys]

I don't understand why you need C02 AND a beer engine?

Are you planning on hooking up a type of aspirator/breather to keep the beer fresh for longer than a few days?

Also don't see any shives/spiles/etc?? Essential if you're going for a "cask" beer.

K

Well, with just me drinking it, it really is going to have to last more than a few days!! Even I would struggle (or rather my liver would) to get through a 30 litre kegful in a week!

So instead of letting air into the thing wouldn't it be better to let CO2 in instead?

EDIT: Oh, and I want to be able to serve all different styles, "cask" style and keg style beers
and maybe even ciders.

Just keep the PSI right down to under 4 as a co2 blanket and enough to serve. An expensive Beer engine not essential just don't tell Camra. Simple cheap tap will do.

 

[calumscott]

just don't tell Camra

:lol: I don't think they'd be my friend anyway!

 

[The Goatreich]

OK, colour me utterly intrigued. Is there more information about these anywhere? Ideally I would love a set of cornie kegs, but if these are cheaper, and can perform in the same way I am very very interested.

 

[calumscott]

OK, colour me utterly intrigued. Is there more information about these anywhere? Ideally I would love a set of cornie kegs, but if these are cheaper, and can perform in the same way I am very very interested.

They are these:

http://www.polykeg.it/modules_cms/PrCat ... ?cc=2&pc=1

The T-type.

 

[calumscott]

How do I go about running different pressures from each keg?

Is that easily controlled with secondary gas valves or do I need something more clever?

 

[joe1002]

How do I go about running different pressures from each keg?

Is that easily controlled with secondary gas valves or do I need something more clever?

Either a gas management board, which seem to be like rocking horse poo therefore are rather expensive or you can get three (or more) regs linked together. I'll try to find a link.

Edit: something like this albeit not at that price or condition :shock:

 

[calumscott]

three (or more) regs linked together. I'll try to find a link.

Edit: something like [url:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-4-Way-Secondary-co2-Regulator-4-Draft-Beer-4-Kegs-with-cut-off-with-gauges-/181259492129]this[/url] albeit not at that price or condition :shock:

I see... so you would run the primary on "lager pressure", then each secondary in series at a reduced pressure from the one previous?

Or do you run the primary at "lager" and run the secondaries in parallel?

 

[joe1002]

That's how they work on a gas management board, you have 6 outlets and you can have three different pressures.

3333 2 1

Outlet 1 on the right has the highest pressure, outlet 2 has a lower or equal pressure as outlet 1 and the four outlets labeled 3 all have the same pressure which is equal to or less than outlet 2. Have a look at the picture here, it may help you understand what I mean.

I don't know whether the regulators linked together work the same but it would make sense if they do.

 

[calumscott]

The kegs have landed!

They really are 30l pop bottles with Sankey connections on the top! Light as a feather so they will be really easy to work with.

Thanks to ebay and Barneey for sorting me out with couplers. I've scored a nice chrome font tap on ebay and have my eye on some more. I've even found a local and very reasonable gas supplier. Just leaves a gas management board and beer and gas lines to sort. Beer engines can wait for now...

Happy feckin' days! :party:

 

[bobsbeer]

Just leaves a gas management board and beer and gas lines to sort.

That's the expensive bit. :lol:

 

[calumscott]

Missed a bloody triple reg on eBay the other day, went for 35 quid plus postage..

 

[foxy]

Really needs a good informative article written up about casks and polypins Dennis helped me with his information on this site after I couldn't find a lot of information on line about cask conditioned ale .
I have bought 4 pressure barrels which I have the gas for but I like the idea of the polypins as gas isn't needed to equalise the air pressure, I have beer maturing now in both the barrels and the polypins so I will write a report later on when tried and tested.

 

[calumscott]

What is it with big cylindrical things??? Leave them alone for a while and they breed!

I *may* just have secured myself another half dozen polykegs. So that's 300l of storage and dispense capacity...

Oops! :lol:

 

[Aleman]

Can I just make one point about polykegs (indeed any PET 'bottle').

They are intended for single use operation . . . yes they can be dismantled . . for recycling

Yes they can be refilled . . . HOWEVER . . . ( Sorry however ) the bottle is lined with a gas barrier so that gas does not diffuse in (or out) with time this barrier is removed. PET is very permeable to Oxygen, so do not view these kegs as being useable for long term storage the way you would with a corny.

Having said that I could do with getting my hands on a couple (for storing my 'Kalkwasser') so if anyone has a couple going spare please PM me.

 

[calumscott]

Thanks Tony. I've been able to secure them in a condition that we shall call: "Empty, but not what you would call thoroughly cleaned"...

I expect that the technology here is similar to the Coopers OxBar PET bottles and I've been reusing those and storing for ages (and abusing them with VWP and UV light in the greenhouse) with wanton abandon. So far, so good...

...I will, of course, for the good of the forum and the others that have these, keep you all updated with any problems.

I'm not expecting any TBH. Beers for long term storage/conditioning will be getting bottled in glass as I do now anyway. These are for quicker drinkers, bitters, session pales, stouts, milds, lagers, ciders and such which tend not to hang around too long.

Having a good stock of them means that I can fully condition with a sensible rotation and have spare capacity for ciders etc. and one dedicated for line cleaner.

Oh, and at a fiver a pop, if they start to cause problems after a few brews, I'm not badly out of pocket. I would love to get set up with SS or Ecofass or those plastic cask-like ones but this is a good quick, cheap route in which saves me from the drudgery of bottling 10 gallons at a time!!!

PM on it's way!

 

[calumscott]

Apologies for this Tony, but you piqued my interest so I've been off for a google...

It transpires that there is not just one method of actively barring oxygen from PET containers. There are many from multilayered constructions with O2 scavengers sandwiched into the construction to monolayer types where the scavenging compounds are active within the PET resin itself to the coatings you describe.

Dolium boasts about the fact that it uses Invista PET Polyshield resin mixed with MXD6 Polyamide to give the CO2 passive barrier. Invista PET Polyshield is a monolayer solution.

PolyKeg describe theirs as "a special high-barrier polymer blend" which again suggests a blended monolayer with the barrier tech blended in.

All of which leads me to conclude that far from being ineffective at blocking O2 on anything other than the first fill, the O2 barrier performance will degrade over a much longer time frame instead.

Dolium have a lovely graph showing the the O2 ingress and scavaging curve over time, showing a peak after a few days then it gradually decreasing as it is scavenged out to some future equilibrium point.

Oh, and while I was at it, Oxbar seems to be a trilaminate system with the barrier layer forming the filling in a sandwich between "straight" PET "bread" so it too would have similar degradation properties.

So while it is true to say that polykeg technologies and PET bottles will eventually cause O2 problems, for quickish turnaround beer in newish 2nd hand kegs, to my mind at least, it should be OK.

 

[Hawks]

Calum

did you see this post for secondary regs - http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=51160

 

[calumscott]

I did... I'm not quite at the point of having to shell out on regs yet... I would have to get a brew on first.

...and everyone knows that mods and admins don't brew...