So frustrating....

[Buffers brewery]

Not rude, i'm all over the show tbh!

The two barrels that didnt work were both beer kits without any adaptions. My Co2 supply is via a S30 cylinder. (the large bottle that you twist on when you run out of natural pressure)

I think it must be the cap because I half filled a barrel with water and then added Co2 and it started to come out of the side of the lid.

Whilst i have your attention, can i ask another question. How long when you transfer beer from the fermenter to the barrel would it create enough pressure to flow from the tap? On Tuesday night I filled the barrel should it flow within 48 hours?

Ok. I'm not familiar with kits so don't know if they include priming sugar or not. Did you make a priming solution and add it to the barrel after transferring your beer from the fermentation bucket to the barrel? YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION 1. This is important because the priming solution (a sugar solution of about 4 ozs of sugar dissolves in 1/2 pint water boiled and then cooled) is used to carbonate your beer and generated CO2 to push the beer out of the barrel. Generally having transferred your beer to the barrel and added the priming solution you leave the barrel at around 20C for 2 weeks for it to carbonate and generate enough pressure to serve the beer. Usually conditioning the beer for another 2 weeks at around 10C.

 

[Buffers brewery]

It is there and i put vaseline on the cap but not around the O ring?

The barrel currently has beer in which i put in 2 days ago, should that have created enough pressure to flow?

If not i was going to open up the cap bottle some of the beer and then i could vaseline around the O ring and put the PTFE tape. Does that sound a sensible approach?

I'm not a fan of the PTFE tape thing. Sounds like your cap has not tightened down fully. I experienced this once with one of my barrels where the cap moulding hit the barrel neck and stopped the o ring being compressed. If you have an empty barrel I'd be tempted to check that barrel out and hopefully get that working and transfer your beer to that one.

 

[Nottsbeer]

It is there and i put vaseline on the cap but not around the O ring?

The barrel currently has beer in which i put in 2 days ago, should that have created enough pressure to flow?

If not i was going to open up the cap bottle some of the beer and then i could vaseline around the O ring and put the PTFE tape. Does that sound a sensible approach?

BBs reply regarding priming is important, and giving it time.

Yes, I would remove the O ring and smear it. Not sure what your plan is for the tape. Personally I would work on a barrel not full with beer to get the leak sorted. Get it under pressure and identify where the leak is coming from (as suggested use soapy water or something on the valves/seals). Adding a pressure guage to the lid is a good way to go as well - that will give you peace of mind long term.

As BB has also just said, check the lid is tight.

 

[Buffers brewery]

Alternatively bottle your beer and then sort your barrel out before you use it again. Goes for all your barrels.

 

[DonnyOwl]

Ok. I'm not familiar with kits so don't know if they include priming sugar or not. Did you make a priming solution and add it to the barrel after transferring your beer from the fermentation bucket to the barrel? YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION 1. This is important because the priming solution (a sugar solution of about 4 ozs of sugar dissolves in 1/2 pint water boiled and then cooled) is used to carbonate your beer and generated CO2 to push the beer out of the barrel. Generally having transferred your beer to the barrel and added the priming solution you leave the barrel at around 20C for 2 weeks for it to carbonate and generate enough pressure to serve the beer. Usually conditioning the beer for another 2 weeks at around 10C.

Yes, so the beer kits includes some priming sugar which I added when i transferred the beer to the keg. I then left for a couple of weeks and it sat at about 21c/22c.

 

[DonnyOwl]

BBs reply regarding priming is important, and giving it time.

Yes, I would remove the O ring and smear it. Not sure what your plan is for the tape. Personally I would work on a barrel not full with beer to get the leak sorted. Get it under pressure and identify where the leak is coming from (as suggested use soapy water or something on the valves/seals). Adding a pressure guage to the lid is a good way to go as well - that will give you peace of mind long term.

As BB has also just said, check the lid is tight.

Thanks again for the advice. So just so i'm doing the testing correct. I fill the barrel with cold water to about 50% and i'll vaseline around the O ring and the lid then put soapy water around the outside of the lid and the tap. Then I'll put in approx 5 squerts of the C02 cylinder.

Is this a good action plan?

Ta

 

[Buffers brewery]

I usually fill my barrels to within a couple of inches of the top. Pressurises quicker and uses less gas.
Before you do that remove the big o ring from the cap put a gob of vasaline in the o ring groove so that it fills a short length of the groove. Replace the cap WITHOUT o ring and tighten as far as it will go. Remove cap and inspect vasaline gob. It should be squidged flat. If not the lip of the barrel is catching on the cap moulding and needs to be chamfered a little until the cap fits. This will ensure the o ring is getting well compressed.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

Agree, lid the likely culprit.

Check the top of barrel that the oring sits on is nice and smooth, no nicks, cracks in the neck of the barrel or lumps on it. If lumps sticking up it needs paring smooth with stanley knife ( not likely that you'll find this problem though ).
Take the O ring out give it a good clean with alcohol and then warm water and check that has no nicks etc in it. If damaged replace it.
Use keg lube on nitrile or butadiene rings ( its silicone grease) and never use silicone grease on silicone orings it makes them deteriorate , which is a bit of a paradox I know. Use Vaseline on Silicone O rings.
I'm not sure what your oring is made of but pretty sure my kingkeg has nitrile or another non silicone o ring ( it's black ) .
I smear the lubricant on all of the oring and then put it back in the groove ( after checking that the groove / seat for it isn't damaged ).
Fill keg to near full and then put some gas in if you hear leaking / see bubbling tighten a bit more. If the lid is bulging up a lot that means the pressure is quite high and would be too high for serving, but get a gauge for that assessment.
The ptfe tape will only make the lid do up a bit easier as it's nice and smooth, the lid and oring make the air tight seal and the threads just hold it in position.

 

[DonnyOwl]

Agree, lid the likely culprit.

Check the top of barrel that the oring sits on is nice and smooth, no nicks, cracks in the neck of the barrel or lumps on it. If lumps sticking up it needs paring smooth with stanley knife ( not likely that you'll find this problem though ).
Take the O ring out give it a good clean with alcohol and then warm water and check that has no nicks etc in it. If damaged replace it.
Use keg lube on nitrile or butadiene rings ( its silicone grease) and never use silicone grease on silicone orings it makes them deteriorate , which is a bit of a paradox I know. Use Vaseline on Silicone O rings.
I'm not sure what your oring is made of but pretty sure my kingkeg has nitrile or another non silicone o ring ( it's black ) .
I smear the lubricant on all of the oring and then put it back in the groove ( after checking that the groove / seat for it isn't damaged ).
Fill keg to near full and then put some gas in if you hear leaking / see bubbling tighten a bit more. If the lid is bulging up a lot that means the pressure is quite high and would be too high for serving, but get a gauge for that assessment.
The ptfe tape will only make the lid do up a bit easier as it's nice and smooth, the lid and oring make the air tight seal and the threads just hold it in position.

I've managed to pressurise one of my KK with the PTFE tape, more vaseline and really tightening the lid. It's got old brew in so i'll be chucking it away to start a fresh brew.

Can I ask another novice question. When I move the beer from the fermenter to the KK how can i be 100% sure that it's pressurised at this stage. I obviously don't want to wait a couple of weeks for the beer to create pressure in the KK.

Would it be sensible to insert some Co2 straightaway to ensure it's holding pressure?

 

[Nottsbeer]

I've managed to pressurise one of my KK with the PTFE tape, more vaseline and really tightening the lid. It's got old brew in so i'll be chucking it away to start a fresh brew.

Can I ask another novice question. When I move the beer from the fermenter to the KK how can i be 100% sure that it's pressurised at this stage. I obviously don't want to wait a couple of weeks for the beer to create pressure in the KK.

Would it be sensible to insert some Co2 straightaway to ensure it's holding pressure?

Hi Donny, when I used to use these I would just prime and get the lid tight. If I was using them now I would fit a pressure guage as outlined in the previous threads (see the threads on barrels). It looks easy to fit and will give you peace of mind regarding leaks. Glad to hear you have sorted one barrel

 

[Nottsbeer]

You can also buy something already made if you want.
https://www.balliihoo.co.uk/index.php?route=product/search&search=cap and pressure

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@DonnyOwl
Progress which is good news.
Yes I think it's a good plan of yours to fill the KK and then put some gas in. As we have mentioned a gauge, or a corney bulkhead gas post and gauge really useful. I'd get a gauge that works in the 0 to 15 psi range it'll be more accurate. Other advantage of the gas post is you can fit a spunding valve onto it, so as secondary ferment occurs you can vent pressure to your desired level.

Have attached picture of my KK lid with post on, still using gas injector port at the moment for old times sake and I have the cylinders, but will move if needed to gas in thru corney post. Also picture with the spunding valve on as it's only a week into secondary.
I will then probably take out the original gas inject connector for the HB and replace it with a liquid corney bulkhead and fit the floating dip tube to that. It will allow me to do closed transfers from pressure barrel if needed.

 

[Stevieboy]

Could I just point out that the PTFE tape round the barrel lid thread is a complete red herring. That is not where the seal is made. The seal is made between the lid and the o-ring and the top of the barrel.

Use a flat sanding block and fine paper to flatten the top of your barrel to remove the imperfections, and vaseline under and over the o-ring.

 

[RoomWithABrew]

@Stevieboy
Several of us agree with you , as per post of @Buffers brewery and @Nottsbeer and @RoomWithABrew
The best the PTFE tape achieves is it makes it easier to tighten the lid down onto a well lubricated Oring hopefully to sit on a nice smooth keg rim.

 

[DonnyOwl]

I ended up binning the last two barrels in the end and i've done another brew which has exactly the same issue. When I poured it for the first time it dripped out about 1/5th of a pint and then it stopped. I put in some Co2 and the beer flowed for a while and then stopped again and the gas this time was coming through the tap.

So far i've done 4 brews and got 1 barral of drinkable beer, i've worked out it's cost be about £8.50 a pint so far. I could go out drinking all night in Mayfair for a better return on investment..........

I've read the advice about getting a pressure valve but I'm thinking i'm just throwing good money after bad so i'm now I'm just considering a corny keg.

Presumably if I get a corny keg then i'll have zero risk of the continual leaks?

 

[Buffers brewery]

Hi @DonnyOwl sorry to hear you're still having problems. You got a fair bit of advice and suggestions as to what you could try or do to fix the problems you were describing. What did you do in the end that gave you the confidence to try another brew......that failed?
If you're using a top tap KK and you're getting gas out of the tap either the float tube is disconnected or damaged or the seal that seals the float tube connector to the tap is leaking.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

Did you replace the pressure release rubber on the valve?

 

[DonnyOwl]

Did you replace the pressure release rubber on the valve?

No, although all 3 pressure barrels were brand new so i'd presumed that it wasn't faulty equipment but that is probably a little naive.

 

[Hazelwood Brewery]

No, although all 3 pressure barrels were brand new so i'd presumed that it wasn't faulty equipment but that is probably a little naive.

Almost certainly, that’s your problem.

 

[jeg3]

I've got two top tap king kegs, I've been lucky but I do this on every brew:

Vaseline on the cap seal.
Vaseline on the tap seal.

Tighten the cap with a spanner thingy. Sometimes it's difficult to get off again.

I squirt with a bit of co2 when I tighten the cap, but it is primed to 1.5 vols (is use about 60g table sugar). Most of beers pour well within a week, but I like pale ales which don't take much conditioning.