Single infusion - is there any need to sparge at all?

[MikeB]

As I slowly get my AG stuff together I think I've found an ideal mash tun, which is big enough to do a single infusion. Is there any disadvantage in mashing this way? Does it reduce efficiency to the point where the time advantage is completely outweighed?

I'm trying to get around the idea that if you can keep the mash at a constant temp using all the liquor at once, surely this is the best way of extracting fermentables?

 

[evanvine]

I get your drift Mike, but alas no!
Doing it your way the grain is going to hang on to a lot of the fermentables.
You need to "wash" them out with fresh hot water, IE you need to sparge! :cry:

 

[Alan Robinson]

I get your drift Mike, but alas no!
Doing it your way the grain is going to hang on to a lot of the fermentables.
You need to "wash" them out with fresh hot water, IE you need to sparge! :cry:

Here here :clap: I'd go even further, and say that sparging is in fact one the the most important AG brewing activities to master.

 

[unclepumble]

There is a reason brewers mash the way they do, its the best way to do it, developed over hundreds of years.

If you put all the liquid in you will get very poor efficencies, it will convert but not as well as if you use the magic 2.3ltr liquid to 1kg Grist ratio.

You will also leave lots of fermentables, in the spent grain, the point of sparging is to wash these sugars out of the grain.

You can not sparge if you are making a small amount of a big beer, but you still need to have a fairly stiff mash, and its usual to sparge out the grains to make a second small beer afterwards.

UP

 

[MikeB]

Ah... OK so it's an efficiency thing, as I thought it might be. Fair enough!

Does this mean that the brew in a bag technique, which seems to be popular in the States, has the same issue? I assume so...

 

[Taf]

I use the brew in the bag technique, and still sparge, as would most boil in a bag people. BIAB just means that you are using your bolier as your mash tun.

 

[Aleman]

I've done several no sparge beers, and I love the result. Basically you double the amount of grain, mash at 3.0 to 3.5L per Kg, then just drain the wort out at the end of the mash. . . . Then dilute the concentrated wort to your desired preboil volume for the gravity you want in the fermenter taking into account boil losses.

It produces a really rich malty wort, much better quality than that achieved by sparging, or Brew in a bag . . . but is incredibly inefficient, and 'wastes' a lot of grain.

although we quote 2.3 to 2.5L/Kg as an ideal mash liquor ratio going up to 4L/kg is still not an issue . . . and in Plzen they used to end up with a mash of 6L/Kg . . .but that was using a traditional 12hour decoction mash . . .some small Czech craft breweries still do

 

[MikeB]

I use the brew in the bag technique, and still sparge, as would most boil in a bag people. BIAB just means that you are using your bolier as your mash tun.

So are you lifting out the bag of grain, draining the first lot of wort, then refilling the copper and putting the bag of grain back in?

 

[MikeB]

I've done several no sparge beers, and I love the result. Basically you double the amount of grain, mash at 3.0 to 3.5L per Kg, then just drain the wort out at the end of the mash. . . . Then dilute the concentrated wort to your desired preboil volume for the gravity you want in the fermenter taking into account boil losses.

It produces a really rich malty wort, much better quality than that achieved by sparging, or Brew in a bag . . . but is incredibly inefficient, and 'wastes' a lot of grain.

although we quote 2.3 to 2.5L/Kg as an ideal mash liquor ratio going up to 4L/kg is still not an issue . . . and in Plzen they used to end up with a mash of 6L/Kg . . .but that was using a traditional 12hour decoction mash . . .some small Czech craft breweries still do

Sounds really nice, but given that it pretty much doubles the cost of the beer, not really what I'm looking for! I want to make good ale but there are limits

 

[Sean_Mc]

although we quote 2.3 to 2.5L/Kg as an ideal mash liquor ratio going up to 4L/kg is still not an issue . . . and in Plzen they used to end up with a mash of 6L/Kg . . .but that was using a traditional 12hour decoction mash . . .some small Czech craft breweries still do

That's good to know, I used to worry over making the mash too watery when aiming for 2.5/Kg :thumb:

 

[Muddy Funker]

I use the brew in the bag technique, and still sparge, as would most boil in a bag people. BIAB just means that you are using your bolier as your mash tun.

Hi Taf,

Could I ask how you go about sparging with the biab method?

I brew biab and don't sparge and have not had an issue yet with hitting the correct gravity.

My thoughts on it (probably wrong) is that because you have the total volume at the start, the mash is very loose allowing the fermentables to flow out of the grain more so than if it was packed in tighter.

Anyway it works for me :-)

 

[robsan77]

I think I might try the big beer small beer technique next. I've been planning an RIS for my 30th (1 + 1/2 years away) :

 

[Taf]

I use the brew in the bag technique, and still sparge, as would most boil in a bag people. BIAB just means that you are using your bolier as your mash tun.

Hi Taf,
Could I ask how you go about sparging with the biab method?
I brew biab and don't sparge and have not had an issue yet with hitting the correct gravity.
My thoughts on it (probably wrong) is that because you have the total volume at the start, the mash is very loose allowing the fermentables to flow out of the grain more so than if it was packed in tighter.
Anyway it works for me :-)

Hi MF.
I usually have a large grain bill relative to my boiler, so don't really have room for my total volume of liquor at the start, taking into account what I will lose, due to grain soakage, leaving trub behind, evaporation and hop absorption. I usuall have about 6 or 7kg of grain, so mash with about 17 litres, and then sparge with about 15 litres give or take. I do a long hard boil, so lose quite a lot to evaporation. Once the mash has ran off, I slowly sparge with the remaining water. I sometimes open the tap, while sparging, so that the water runs straight through, and does not stir up the grain bed too much. I'm in the process of upgrading to a much larger system, so will then be having a seperate mash tun. At the moment, I am not very scientific and measure very little of what I do, but that will have to change in future. Cheers.

 

[Muddy Funker]

I use the brew in the bag technique, and still sparge, as would most boil in a bag people. BIAB just means that you are using your bolier as your mash tun.

Hi Taf,
Could I ask how you go about sparging with the biab method?
I brew biab and don't sparge and have not had an issue yet with hitting the correct gravity.
My thoughts on it (probably wrong) is that because you have the total volume at the start, the mash is very loose allowing the fermentables to flow out of the grain more so than if it was packed in tighter.
Anyway it works for me :-)

Hi MF.
I usually have a large grain bill relative to my boiler, so don't really have room for my total volume of liquor at the start, taking into account what I will lose, due to grain soakage, leaving trub behind, evaporation and hop absorption. I usuall have about 6 or 7kg of grain, so mash with about 17 litres, and then sparge with about 15 litres give or take. I do a long hard boil, so lose quite a lot to evaporation. Once the mash has ran off, I slowly sparge with the remaining water. I sometimes open the tap, while sparging, so that the water runs straight through, and does not stir up the grain bed too much. I'm in the process of upgrading to a much larger system, so will then be having a seperate mash tun. At the moment, I am not very scientific and measure very little of what I do, but that will have to change in future. Cheers.

Nice one, thanks for the reply.

I built a big old boiler so have room to dump everything in one go! Look forward to seing the new set up :thumb: