Should everybody have a ID Card

[Oneflewover]

Using "What if ... ?" is not a valid argument. Sorry.

Whenever I used the word "if" during a discussion, my Dad (not the most eloquent of men) used to remind me, "IF? If sh*t were butter we'd all be spreading it on our toast."

I'd suggest that the 'what if' consideration is infinitely preferable to the 'I didn't think of that!' realisation. I.e. "I didn't stop to think 'what if sh*t doesn't taste very good' and now I've chucked the butter out. Looks like I'll be eating sh*t sandwiches from now on".....

 

[marshbrewer]

'I think we should all walk over that rickerty looking bridge'

'What if it collapses, and we all fall to our deaths onto those spiky rocks?'

'Oh, I hadn't thought of that, but unfortunately that isn't a valid argument so off we go........'

CRASH!

 

[Brewnaldo]

What if is pretty much the cornerstone of assessing risk. I'd say it's pretty important in this context.

 

[kelper]

In public places like airports the hand wash basins should be outside the restrooms and in full view of passers-by. It's amazing how many people only wash their hands if they think they are being watched.

In Japan, people wear a face mask when they have a cold - to prevent the shame of spreading disease. I think this is true in China in normal times. The Japanese culture is this way. In city traffic the cars turn their headlights off when waiting at the lights.

 

[marshbrewer]

I think curtains in houses should be banned. After all, if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to hide, and if it stops one case of domestic abuse then it's worth it.

Sigh.

 

[GhostShip]

gone please explain that to me. I have loads of different ID cards. The question is should it be compulsory to carry one.

If the Government and security services feel it would make people safer and help in the fight against crime, then yes.

 

[Brewnaldo]

You should have to prove yourself innocent if charged with a crime. That would lead to more convictions making us all safer.

 

[kelper]

You should have to prove yourself innocent if charged with a crime. That would lead to more convictions making us all safer.

It would lead to many innocent people being jailed too. And the actual culprit being overlooked.

 

[Brewnaldo]

It would lead to many innocent people being jailed too. And the actual culprit being overlooked.

I know. I was being sarcastic. I think id cards can only ever be made to sound good by using fantasy arguments like they will keep us safe.

 

[Dutto]

What truly amazes me is that any subject of the UK can even start to think that the Government doesn’t already have the relevant information to produce an individual’s ID Card.

I’ve had the same NI number since I started work in 1956, a Bank Account since 1958, a Driving Licence since 1963, a Credit Card since 1965 and a Passport since 1970! (I don’t know when I was given an NHS Number but I’ve got one.)

I’m pretty certain that the powers that be don’t need any more information about me that isn’t available on those documents.

I also doubt that I am in any way exceptional so an ID Card that fitted in my wallet (along with the other 10 or so Cards that range from my RNLI Membership to my Labour Party Card) would be a very useful addition.

 

[Linalmeemow]

What truly amazes me is that any subject of the UK can even start to think that the Government doesn’t already have the relevant information to produce an individual’s ID Card.

I’ve had the same NI number since I started work in 1956, a Bank Account since 1958, a Driving Licence since 1963, a Credit Card since 1965 and a Passport since 1970! (I don’t know when I was given an NHS Number but I’ve got one.)

I’m pretty certain that the powers that be don’t need any more information about me that isn’t available on those documents.
.

They can't associate any of that data to you if you're stopped by the authorities unless you're carrying identification to link them to you though, that's the point.

 

[Brewnaldo]

They can't associate any of that data to you if you're stopped by the authorities unless you're carrying identification to link them to you though, that's the point.

What right has anyone to stop me in the street and demand that information off of me though?

Why should my kids be born into an expectation of presenting their identification to state actors at their whim?

 

[simon12]

Can you imagine getting your wallet stolen then getting arrested for having no ID card

 

[Dutto]

They can't associate any of that data to you if you're stopped by the authorities unless you're carrying identification to link them to you though, that's the point.

Er ... I wouldn’t try that out!

To refuse to give your name and address (or to give a false name and address) to a police officer has been an offence in the UK for a number of years now!

Please check out the You Gov site or even this one if you want to check on your freedom.

https://freedomnews.org.uk/do-you-have-to-give-the-cops-your-name-and-address-2/

An ID Card would save a lot of hassle.

Enjoy.

 

[marshbrewer]

To refuse to give your name and address (or to give a false name and address) to a police officer has been an offence in the UK for a number of years now!

Only if the plod have a lawful reason. They cannot walk up to a random person and demand they identify themselves. This bulwalk against abuse would be removed by definition if ID was compulsory as they could simply claim they were enforcing the law.

So I'm still yet to see a single reason why compulsory ID cards can be justified.

 

[Dutto]

Only if the plod have a lawful reason. They cannot walk up to a random person and demand they identify themselves. ....

You really should read this link before you try it!

https://freedomnews.org.uk/do-you-have-to-give-the-cops-your-name-and-address-2/

It says “Of course you don’t!” and then gives a few (of the many) examples of where you can be arrested if you don’t!

 

[Linalmeemow]

What right has anyone to stop me in the street and demand that information off of me though?

Why should my kids be born into an expectation of presenting their identification to state actors at their whim?

You've misunderstood, this is why I think ID cards are a BAD idea. Sure, all the data exists but a compulsory ID card makes the association between that data and yourself if you were stopped.

 

[Linalmeemow]

Er ... I wouldn’t try that out!

To refuse to give your name and address (or to give a false name and address) to a police officer has been an offence in the UK for a number of years now!

Please check out the You Gov site or even this one if you want to check on your freedom.

https://freedomnews.org.uk/do-you-have-to-give-the-cops-your-name-and-address-2/

An ID Card would save a lot of hassle.

Enjoy.

You have read that link, haven't you? It clearly says you DON'T have to give your name and address unless under a specific legal obligation. Also, the worst they can do if you refuse is give you a fine.

 

[Dutto]

In Scotland:

"If asked to do so, you must give your name, address, date and place of birth and nationality to the officer. You may also be asked for an explanation of your behaviour. If you give false information or refuse to answer, you are committing an offence for which you could be arrested and charged."

Here is the source ...

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/s...rch-enter-private-property-and-seize-goods-s/

In London:

A police officer who has reasonable grounds for suspicion can stop and detain you in order to conduct a search. There should be a basis for that suspicion based on facts, information, and/or intelligence which are relevant to the likelihood of finding an article of particular kinds.

The detention may only last for as long as it is reasonably required to permit a search. Reasonable force may be used if you are first given the opportunity to cooperate and then refuse.

An officer may ask you: What you are up to? Your name? Your address? Your date of birth?

You DO NOT have to give these unless the officer has pointed out an offence he/she suspects you have committed."

Here is the source ...

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/know_your_rights_z-card.pdf

My advice was (and still is) to ALWAYS give your name and address if requested. Failing to give your name and address could be construed as "a suspicious act" which gives the Police a right to stop, search and (if required) arrest someone.

On the other hand, if you want to be a total prat then refuse, stand by what you believe and take the consequences!

 

[BradleyW]

Living in Spain I can see the advantages of having an ID card. The main ones being you don't have to have your passport to travel, or if whilst on holiday you lose your passport you can still get home. Coz I'm a Brit I just have my passport so neither of these advantages applies to me which I find annoying. I do find the British objection to ID cards as some kind of "big brother" quite amusing when we're more than happy to give up so much of our personal data over the internet. So all in all I'm in favour