Secondary fermenter - should I be using one?

[timcunnell]

Hi guys
Some of you might recall my original thread a few weeks ago where I threatened to give up this brewing lark for good as my brews were continually going bad despite my best efforts with cleanliness.
Thank goodness for you chaps and the excellent advice I got via my thread! I have managed to identify the FV as the culprit and some deep cleaning has got me back on track. I am currently drinking a St Peter's Ruby which I bottled, and it is magic!
Anyway - now I seem to have turned a corner, I have been considering other aspects of my brewing. I have started bottling as although initially a bit more effort, I like the fact that you can store bottles away somewhere, and (now they're actually drinkable!) share them with friends etc.
I mostly bottled my last two batches, and my method has been to siphon my beer out of the FV into another sterile FV that has a tap. I have the "little bottle" gadget fitted to the "secondary" FV, and I get to work straight away with filling the bottles.
But I have been reading more and more about people actually suggesting a secondary ferment in the new vessel, and I wondered if you chaps thought this is worthwhile? Presumably the benefit of this is that it clears better?
I am currently fermenting the Cooper's Australian Lager kit, which I plan to bottle. So the question is, when its finished fermenting out, should I siphon it into my secondary FV and actually leave it in there for a number of days before bottling? Or would it make any difference?
As always, I would really appreciate any advice!

 

[simon12]

It used to be traditional to move the beer into a second fermenter after a week and leave another 2 weeks before bottling. I think this was never the best idea and people have now worked out its better left in the primary for 2-3 weeks, if you want it clearer move it to another vessel after 2-3 weeks and cool it for a few days before bottling.

 

[timcunnell]

Ah okay thanks very much for the reply!
Interesting that you mention leaving the beer in primary for 2-3 weeks. Presumably that is intended for helping the beer to clear a bit, as it would have long-since finished fermenting?
So - even if the beer has finished fermenting out you still leave it in primary for up to 3 weeks, then transfer to a secondary to cool for a couple of days to clear it before bottling. Is that right? And would you bulk-prime in the secondary if bottling? Or is it still better to individually prime each bottle?

 

[HisDudeness]

Yes extra time in FV will allow sediment and yeast to settle out and also allow yeast to clean up nasty byproducts of the initial ferment. You can then transfer to bottling bucket and chill and then batch prime before bottling. Personally I don't bother chilling anymore as beer is usually clear enough after 2-3 weeks. I believe most people consider batch priming to be more consistent and easier than doing individual bottles.

 

[timcunnell]

Yes extra time in FV will allow sediment and yeast to settle out and also allow yeast to clean up nasty byproducts of the initial ferment. You can then transfer to bottling bucket and chill and then batch prime before bottling. Personally I don't bother chilling anymore as beer is usually clear enough after 2-3 weeks. I believe most people consider batch priming to be more consistent and easier than doing individual bottles.

Thanks a lot mate that really helps. I will certainly give this method a go with the current brew then!

Just one question on the issue of batch priming; I know this must sound like such a daft question!! But - while I can certainly seen that adding priming sugars to the whole batch must be much simpler/more efficient than individually priming each bottle, do you have to give it all a proper good stir to make sure the sugar is even distributed? Or does it just naturally mix in quite evenly?

 

[HarrowBrewer]

Give it a good stir, but avoid getting air mixed in as you don't want to oxidate your beer at this stage.

 

[timcunnell]

Give it a good stir, but avoid getting air mixed in as you don't want to oxidate your beer at this stage.

I just wasn't sure if stirring it would reverse any of the clearing that it would have been doing? But I guess you add the sugar when siphoning the beer into the secondary? Actually that makes more sense now!

 

[simon12]

I normally leave in primary for 3 weeks then put it into a bottling fermenter that has the dissolved sugar already in it immediately prior to bottling and skip the chill as my beer is clear enough.

 

[HisDudeness]

That's right syphon into separate bottling bucket first which will hopefully mean minimal sediment then add sugar (solution made with boiled water is best to make mixing easy) stir gently avoiding splashes and bubbles and then bottle away

 

[HisDudeness]

I normally leave in primary for 3 weeks then put it into a bottling fermenter that has the dissolved sugar already in it immediately prior to bottling and skip the chill as my beer is clear enough.

Or this way which will mix it up pretty well during siphoning

 

[timcunnell]

That's brilliant guys, thank you!

I do find it very interesting that brewing instructions on kits are remarkably simplistic, yet in reality even basic brewing is full of little tips and tricks which make all the difference. I've seen loads of noobies like myself comment on how simple the instructions are, where more detail would be useful. I suppose they need to be simple so as not to put people off. But it is amazing how many little tips and hints you pick up as time goes by and you get more proficient. I guess it all adds to the long-term interest in brewing. (that and drinking the results!!).

 

[Redron]

Absolutely ! And bless the Internet for forums such as this one where so much can be learned and shared.
I also use a motorcycle forum specific to my bike and have gleaned so much info from much more knowledgeable folk than me, info you just can't get from the dealers...!
Of course, it's not just about taking information, one has to make a contribution periodically if you think it may be of benefit to others. It's what makes the forum 'world' go round....:

 

[timcunnell]

Absolutely ! And bless the Internet for forums such as this one where so much can be learned and shared.
I also use a motorcycle forum specific to my bike and have gleaned so much info from much more knowledgeable folk than me, info you just can't get from the dealers...!
Of course, it's not just about taking information, one has to make a contribution periodically if you think it may be of benefit to others. It's what makes the forum 'world' go round....:

Very well said, Redron! I could not agree more. I use a few forums for a few interests of mine and while all are good, I have to say there is sometimes a bit of an unwelcoming clique on some. But truthfully this is not only the most knowledgeable and useful forum I use, but also the most friendly. Its a wonderful thing that so many people give their time to provide guidance and impart knowledge gleaned over many years to beginners who are starting out.
I also really agree that it is important to give back by contributing and helping others. I've been doing my best to provide input for other new brewers having the problems and the questions I've had.

HBF really is a great place to be!

Three cheers for the HBF!!

 

[stevej]

:hat: to that man, im sure the rest of the Mod team and the administrator will be pleased at your kind comments : Tim

 

[Redron]

Agreed. I think it's human nature to pass on what you know to help others, it makes you feel good too, so win win.
Unfortunately, as you say, there are many on some forums with large egos that hide behind anonymity and pontificate and bully along the way. Luckily this forum seems devoid of such....
Long may it continue.

 

[timcunnell]

:hat: to that man, im sure the rest of the Mod team and the administrator will be pleased at your kind comments : Tim

Cheers Steve! In the few weeks I've been coming on here I honestly can't tell you how much I've learned and it is entirely thanks to the forum that my interest in home brewing has grown so considerably. The enthusiasm from others on here is infectious and my brew wish list is now longer than my arm! And I've just ordered my first AG kit (thanks to Clibit!) and I didn't think I'd ever get to the point of trying an AG brew!

In truth I got into home brewing because I liked the idea of cheap beer! And I guess this is at the center of it - but is by no means the whole picture! As my wife will testify, my growing collection of brewing kit is not exactly saving money at this stage! Although I am sure it'll pay off in years to come!

 

[stevej]

Cheers Steve! In the few weeks I've been coming on here I honestly can't tell you how much I've learned and it is entirely thanks to the forum that my interest in home brewing has grown so considerably. The enthusiasm from others on here is infectious and my brew wish list is now longer than my arm! And I've just ordered my first AG kit (thanks to Clibit!) and I didn't think I'd ever get to the point of trying an AG brew!

In truth I got into home brewing because I liked the idea of cheap beer! And I guess this is at the center of it - but is by no means the whole picture! As my wife will testify, my growing collection of brewing kit is not exactly saving money at this stage! Although I am sure it'll pay off in years to come!

Growing kit :rofl: i still have not stopped i think i have around 17 fvs, for me i got into homebrew because i have 1 bar nearby and thats it, it serves the most awful ales and lagers you could imagine, so for me it was a challenge to brew something drinkable :-D

 

[timcunnell]

Growing kit :rofl: i still have not stopped i think i have around 17 fvs, for me i got into homebrew because i have 1 bar nearby and thats it, it serves the most awful ales and lagers you could imagine, so for me it was a challenge to brew something drinkable :-D

Ah yes I can certainly sympathise with you when it comes to nearby establishments service sub-standard ale!

It was a work colleague that got me interested in homebrew. And when he told me you could easily brew beer that was better than you get in pubs I thought he was mental. Now I realise that it is fairly easy to make beer that is better than the pub! In fact I bet that if a lot of you guys brewed pub standard beer you'd be thoroughly disappointed!! :)

 

[stevej]

Ah yes I can certainly sympathise with you when it comes to nearby establishments service sub-standard ale!

It was a work colleague that got me interested in homebrew. And when he told me you could easily brew beer that was better than you get in pubs I thought he was mental. Now I realise that it is fairly easy to make beer that is better than the pub! In fact I bet that if a lot of you guys brewed pub standard beer you'd be thoroughly disappointed!! :)

I wish it had stopped with beer Tim, thanks to Mr Chippy_Tea now my gear is still growing:rofl: have you tried wine yet? check the wine sections out dead easy to do

 

[timcunnell]

I wish it had stopped with beer Tim, thanks to Mr Chippy_Tea now my gear is still growing:rofl: have you tried wine yet? check the wine sections out dead easy to do

Actually that's a very good point, I haven't tried making wine yet! I did have some very good wine recently though which was home brewed, so I am definitely interested!!